Red Alert's starting issue...

[ICEPICK]

Hmmm I'm going to ignore that you said the "pc thingy sucks ass" considering I've already stated that the carPC is not the issue and is switched off and doesn't draw power....

just sayin. u have that to save the battery and it dosnt seem to be. somthing is wrong if a few min. battery is dead enough to need a jump. i can run my 1400 watts jammin and kill the battery in a short time. so somthing is up. isnt your carPC supposed to save the battery????

[MP81]

I still don't get why it'll start up a while after it doesn't...that's what makes no sense to me.

[Elliott87iroc]

what is a AGM Battery?

[9T8W66]

what is a AGM Battery?

Absorbent Glass Matte
Basically a Gel cell

[Fox Slaughter]

Tl;dr

Easiest way to tell if your alternator is charging is put a volt meter on the battery why the car is running. Should see around 14v. Also you can check parasitic draw.

[ICEPICK]

he says he's had the alt checkd and its charging. soooooo, for some reason his car just dont wanna leave certan places when he does.

[SSTODD]

The jumper cables are making the ground circuit complete after it will not start on its own. I would replace the battery ground cable assembly and maybe the positive side also because one of them is losing its connection.

[98blackbeauty]

I think this has a lot to do with the powdercoated alternator, IMHO. Eric L

The alt. is not powder coated. I polished the raised strip and painted the red.

[meissen]

just sayin. u have that to save the battery and it dosnt seem to be. somthing is wrong if a few min. battery is dead enough to need a jump. i can run my 1400 watts jammin and kill the battery in a short time. so somthing is up. isnt your carPC supposed to save the battery????

The carPC is an entertainment device that also reads the OBD port and can do diagnostic logging and tuning. Just saying - there's better ways to suggest checking the CarPC [a project I'm very proud of] than saying "maybe the carPC sucks ass" Just saying.

I still don't get why it'll start up a while after it doesn't...that's what makes no sense to me.

That's what annoys me with the problem.

Tl;dr

Easiest way to tell if your alternator is charging is put a volt meter on the battery why the car is running. Should see around 14v. Also you can check parasitic draw.

The jumper cables are making the ground circuit complete after it will not start on its own. I would replace the battery ground cable assembly and maybe the positive side also because one of them is losing its connection.

So after needing a jump on Saturday evening when trying to leave McDonalds, I tried starting it on Sunday morning and it fired right up. Dan and I checked the battery and alternator and verified ~12v while off, and ~14v while the car was running. I turned on the carPC and PCMcomm says battery voltage is 12.6v. Now I don't know if this is a clue or looking into it too much. Normally if you measure a wire in the circuit past the charging system it'd be 12v even with the car running - right? I just thought it would read the 14v like you'd get at the battery terminals. Either way, that tells me that I can't pay attention to the PCMcomm's measure of battery voltage. I e-mailed PCMcomm's programmer to see if he can shed some light on that variable.

I drove the Camaro to my parent's house to help my dad fix a problem with his car. While I was there I tightened my steering column and while I had the kick panel apart I straightened out some of the jungle wiring that I had for the alarm and all the other mods. I had one ground that was a mess of splices, so I cleaned it up a little bit but I wasn't doing it thinking it'd solve the starting issue. Started the car numerous times while I was at my parent's house and had no issues. Drove home, let it sit for a few hours, tried starting it and again no issues.


Either way, I do appreciate all the input everyone has given thus far. We won't be doing any major investigation work to it until this winter - rewiring terminals or finding a ground just sound like fun and sounds like "tearing apart" to me, so I'm going to hold off until Winter and just hope wherever I go someone is nice enough to give me a jump if we can't get the car to start.

[98blackbeauty]

Ok thanks for some good idea's here, there are a few things we haven't done. 1. when it does not start turn on head lights, beep horn see if battery really down. 2. need to clean up ground connects. 3. Alt. may not put out enough amp. to charge and run car with all the assessory's. When the red top battery was in the car it had side and top connects. When Brian mentioned jumping the the battery he would put jumpers to top posts, while the side connects remain untouched. Larry mentioned the added current will over come high resistant connection, I think this is happening with jump. Also to claify when Brian is talking 12 v he is using VOM and can't tell if its 12.5 etc.
Sunday we measured across battery it was 12.67 v positive to neg terminals, then from neg to alternator it was the same. then started the car it measured 13.8 v across bat terminals then from battery - to alt. post was same. then we measured from battery + terminal to frame grd and alt. to frame grd and all read 13.8v with engine running. Seems to indicate there is good grd connection. I know it may not carry the current load though for starter.
So all this babble from me brings me to another idea! Maybe problem is mechanical. What if starter drive gear clearance is barily enough when cold and hot the flex plate is expanded enough that starter woun't engage with out more amp.s (Like a jump) to engage. How do you check this clearance? There are no shims on starter, should we just put one on there? Would like some feed back.

[MP81]

That would be a plausible explanation, since heat does cause metal to expand, and it's not like it's in a bind, but it's just enough to where it won't kick over on it's own without a little extra juice...

[ICEPICK]

well i guess i should say sorry for saying pc thingy. didnt remember the carpc when i started. im on a cell phone so its a pain to relook up the name. i took it as the carpc moniterd the power from the battery and would shut down the electrical to the car if power got to low like a battery tender. so my mistake. thats why i said sucks ass sense i took it as not doing its job. i figured by the sounds of things you have no power till you get even more power hooked up. what is the voltage when the car go's click. that would be nice to know. if it says 12.5 or higher then you know its not the batt. or alt anymore. the best way to find out when it does it. also you messed with alarm wires. that does have an ignition shut off sooooo who knows. just carry a meater with ya and check if it does happen agian.

[steddy]

Larry, I'm a big fan of shimming starters after the dreaded "Chevy Grind" enough times. Because of the variations between blocks and starter bodies, shimming is most times, a necessary evil.

Just use a screwdriver to hook enough of the starter gear to pull it toward the flywheel. All you need to do is remove the inspection cover, remove one bolt and loosen the other. Slide a shim in and tighten snug, then slide the arm toward the flywheel. When the motion is smooth and the starter gear engages the flywheel (flexplate), you have the right clearance. If you have a straight bolt pattern, use straight shims and if the pattern is staggered, use the staggered shims. Saves a lot of headaches. Doesn't take but a half hour max to do the whole thing. Yes, the metal will have some expansion, but not enough to knock off the clearance after shimming. I'm relatively sure that you can push the arm on both a mini and a regular starter using the screwdriver method.

[meissen]

Haven't done anything with the car - just been too fed up with it. But I did try starting it after a week of sitting and the battery's bone dead so that does confirm I have parasitic draw in addition to whatever other problem I'm having with not being able to start the car.

[MP81]

Basically need to start branching off and finding the draw...