NEW 5th Gen Interior Leaks

[MP81]

I think it looks great, except the automatic shifter - but most of the time, auto shifters look like shit anyways. I don't much like mine...

[kammi10]

yeah 3rd gen auto shifters are the worst

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

I dont remember if the 3rd gens had the hump or not, but they did have structure in there.

Nope, they don't.

Just like the second gens didn't.

Reinforcing the center span of the roof will not do anything to help with torsional twisting once the outside panels are removed.

But the roof will not get reinforced for T-tops.

Take a 8.5 by 11 piece of paper...hold onto the two 8 inch ends and twist them opposingly...now cut out two 3 inch by 3 inch squares, making a rudimentary "I"...twist it again...see the difference? Now tape a 8" long straw down the center of the "I", and twist again.

Still pretty easy to twist.

Reinforcing the center span will not help torsional twisting at all.

You need to reinforce cross-car to prevent it.

Now sub-frame connectors...roll cages...that's another story...

[Lucky SOB]

I dont understand how TTops are worse than Controvertible. Could someone please explain that.

im gonna have to say t-tops are better. vert cars, well atleast classic vert cars tend to sag in the middle due to the lack of strength and cause door jam and other gap lines to be off over time. so i can't imagine how that can be stronger than a car with t-tops that atleast is still structurally sound. but hey im not an engineer. i say we call mythbusters.

[WMCCjames]

Not feeling the interior..the concept looked much better and more proportional.

[JoeliusZ28]

Nope, they don't.

Just like the second gens didn't.

Reinforcing the center span of the roof will not do anything to help with torsional twisting once the outside panels are removed.

But the roof will not get reinforced for T-tops.

Take a 8.5 by 11 piece of paper...hold onto the two 8 inch ends and twist them opposingly...now cut out two 3 inch by 3 inch squares, making a rudimentary "I"...twist it again...see the difference? Now tape a 8" long straw down the center of the "I", and twist again.

Still pretty easy to twist.

Reinforcing the center span will not help torsional twisting at all.

You need to reinforce cross-car to prevent it.

Now sub-frame connectors...roll cages...that's another story...

The goal of T-bar roof bracing is not for rigidity against torsional twisting. the bracing is there for safety purposes in a rollover accident because of todays NHTSA standards. doesnt surprise me 2nd gens didnt have it, or even third gens. 4th gens did, and thats really the only car thats going to come close to comparing. 2nd and 3rd gens also had bigger C-pillars and less angular A-pillars, meaning their natural design would hold up better in a rollover than a 4th.

If the 5th gen has a b-pillar (it does unfortunately) as well as a roof brace, i dont see why it couldnt pass safety tests. A hardtop design is safer than a hatchback anyway.

[silver6_maro]

Not really feeling the interior either, but im sure it will be different if i ever sat in one or drove one....and i think im going to order one with that paintjob!!

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

The goal of T-bar roof bracing is not for rigidity against torsional twisting. the bracing is there for safety purposes in a rollover accident because of todays NHTSA standards.

If that was really the case, they would reinforce the shortest span...i.e. crosscar just behind the seats at the b-pillar.

Longintudinal reinforcement (down centerline of car) does nothing for head protection in a rollover (crosscar induced spin).

It should be noted that the FMVSS specs for rollover are much more ridgid in 2010, and it's unlikely you'll see T-tops ever again...not impossible...just unlikely.

Notice how convertible belt lines continue to rise in +Z while the amount of the passenger's head is less and less exposed...there are reasons to do it other than being trendy.

[JoeliusZ28]

Longintudinal reinforcement (down centerline of car) does nothing for head protection in a rollover (crosscar induced spin).

completely disagree with this. That brace is responsible for helping the A-pillars hold their shape when rollover forces are working to flatten them. Its the same concept for cars with sunroofs, except their support comes from the outer edge of the roof instead of the inside.

Safety restrictions are getting stiffer, but there are two many clues on this car to make me believe it is not a possibility:

- Lines down the center of the roof: sure they could just be styling cues but if you think about it, why else would they be there?? I cant think of any other car that has them.

- Evidence of [necessary] structural support in the roof we've already discussed

- Frameless side windows: Also necessary for t-tops.

- B-pillars: would also be necessary for t-tops if they were to come out. The LACK of b-pillars on the concept is what made everyone think they were done for. The mule clearly has them, hell the rear quarter window has the transparent area of a Compact Disc.


and then you have the people who think we wont have t-tops because "it doesnt look good"

yea right

[02RedCamaro]

Not a fan of the interior at all. The exterior looks ok, takes some getting used to. The one with the t-tops doesn't look bad.

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

Hey, you found one! Was looking for one of those...

The four points circled will be your "first points of impact" in a rollover. They have zero support will will just bend over on first contact allowing the occupants head to either a) hit the ground or b) impact the now-deformed sheetmetal itself (remember you're upside down).

There is no support, as there are no roof rails, running down the upper outboard portion of the vehicle.

Occupants will die.

T-tops are worse than convertibles as they allow more unsupported sheetmetal to possibly come into contact with the occupant's heads.

The center support means nothing unless you just happen to fall directly on top of it.

[MP81]

...and they leak.

I like t-tops better than convertibles as far as having them off goes.

Just not when it rains...

[JoeliusZ28]

Hey, you found one! Was looking for one of those...

The four points circled will be your "first points of impact" in a rollover. They have zero support will will just bend over on first contact allowing the occupants head to either a) hit the ground or b) impact the now-deformed sheetmetal itself (remember you're upside down).

There is no support, as there are no roof rails, running down the upper outboard portion of the vehicle.

Occupants will die.

T-tops are worse than convertibles as they allow more unsupported sheetmetal to possibly come into contact with the occupant's heads.

The center support means nothing unless you just happen to fall directly on top of it.

The center support prevents the windshield from folding down. The area above the windshield is also strengthened on a t-top car (yes even 4th gens) to prevent one a-pillar from bending down without the other. Without the roof support, this added structure above the windshield would be worthless.

Also the t-top itself does offer structural support there.

T-tops are not worse than convertibles in 90% of rollovers. I'll disagree with you about that all day long, because at the end of the day one has a roof and the other doesnt.

There is absolutely minimal difference between a t-top and a hardtop car in a rollover. One has glass the other has a piece of sheetmetal. One will shatter, one wont. Ive cut up a 4th gen hard top before with a sawzall, i know exactly what is there. A hardtop isnt going to hold up to much more than a t-top, period.

[MP81]

Yeah...are you all arguing about the t-tops being on or off?

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

Here's a good report with video...and these cars are full roof cars...yes, yes, too many SUVs I know...but watch the Chevy Malibu roll over results...now imagine T-tops...or, rather, nothing there at all...

Enjoy...from autosafety.org...

http://nmmstream.net:8080/ramgen/cas/rollover.rm