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TJ has tunned my car and a few others that I have built motors for.
Top notch service!
He can do it 2 different ways, dyno or street driving.
He'll hook ya up
He also tuned my LS1 PCM conversion!
Last edited by Phantom409; January 28th, 2012, 01:26 PM.
VicePresident of West Michigan Firebird Club A.K.A The Maverick http://www.cardomain.com/ride/660128/1 93 TA Currently Under Construction AGAIN 2007 2500 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab w/ 6.0L & 3.73's
TJ has tunned my car and a few others that I have built motors for.
Top notch service!
He can do it 2 different ways, dyno or street driving.
He'll hook ya up
He also tuned my LS1 PCM conversion!
Didn't you have huge issues with that conversion? How did that end up going in the end?
Next to having a bad o2 not at all.
Car fired the 1st time and runs like a charm.
VicePresident of West Michigan Firebird Club A.K.A The Maverick http://www.cardomain.com/ride/660128/1 93 TA Currently Under Construction AGAIN 2007 2500 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab w/ 6.0L & 3.73's
Hah, I was gonna refrain from saying cause I know they surf local sites and I don't feel like getting bashed. But after the conversation with the tuner yesterday and the feeling that he could give a shit less I feel I will not be using their services ever again. Vector Motorsports.
I am really suprised with your comments or experience with Vector. I know the guys there and they do a great job, maybe your engine has a problem thats keeping power down, and tuning can not over come your problem. Have you tried to call and take your car back to see if there is a problem. What has all been done to your motor? what Numbers did you make?
I'm not basjing you or defending Vector just wanting more data.
sigpic
1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.
Okay, here is the story. My first experience with them was through Aggressive Motorsports where I thought Aggressive was doing the tuning, once I found out they were just going to Vector I started to go there. My first tune from them was just bolt ons. The tune showed a .5 seconds improvement down the 1/4 mile. I was extremely pleased!
The second time I went straight through them and my car was a cam only... The intake manifold did not seal properly and thus blow by occurred and sufficient timing could not be achieved. Mind you, I do all work myself and just give them the car for tuning purposes, so I can understand how they might be apprehensive with someone's work. It some what bothers me that they do not allow owners to be present during the tune, I'm sorry, but my money and time investment is important to me and I would like to make sure that the proper procedures are being taken during tuning. Well, I stayed in the lobby and the tuner came out and exclaimed, "Your motor is crippled there is something extremely wrong. You need a compression check. There is so much blow by I can't get proper timing. You probably need a rebuild." Well, as said, it was the intake manifold gasket, nothing huge like his hypothesis.
Now the motor is a 383 stroker, forged internals, not a cheap or short cut build to say the least. I ran the car for only 20 miles to bring it there and had Vector do the rest. I made Vector a full list of my modifications as well as instructions that I could not get the transmission to temp and may need more trans fluid. Along with that note I included 3 extra qts of fluid and a trans funnel to add more if needed. I mentioned this to the tuner and told him if he needed ANYTHING or saw any problems to abort the tune so the problem could be fixed, he said if he ran into any issues he would let me know.
Well, within 3 hours one of my new fuel lines blew at the rear axle, not on the dyno thankfully. I was embarrassed at first until I found out it was due to the hose being over clamped and the fittings severed the hose. The hoses and fittings were built by a hose and fittings company, which is their only real business. This was addressed and fixed and tuning resumed the next day. That day my OBDII PCM froze during the tune and was replaced by Vector and the tuning was finished that night. So I picked the car up the next day. The RWHP was a little under what I expected but the torque was EXTREMELY low for an LT1 383 with the cam I had.
So to respond to Plum, I thought there was an issue. So I asked, "Did you run into any problems during the tune?" His response was, "No, it was fine." Which then I started with more questions such as "How were the knock counts? Did you get the timing you wanted?" His answer was, "Yea." "What was the timing?" and his answer was, "I don't remember." I asked him, "What was the injector duty?" His reply was, "Really low." Then I asked if he can print a more detailed sheet with detailed information like that and he said, "No, I don't think it does that."
Welp, last week I believe I found out why the ratings were lower than expected, especially the torque... I lose 3rd gear and OD earlier last week. And why? It was starving for trans fluid and burned up the clutches. I understand this was my fault for giving them the car with the risk of low fluid, but I wanted to make sure it was tuned before I drove it around a lot. When I asked them to fill the trans with fluid if it was low as well as spending time to give them specific instructions and then them saying it wasn't a problem I figured it would be looked after. They knew the car was just finished and started running, I'm just hoping they did the proper load procedures. All they instructed me to make sure of was that there were no leaks, and there wasn't. So when I picked it up and they stated that there were no issues when tuning kind of irritates me. Obviously there was.
Once my trans was acting up I put my scanner on the car and also noticed that it runs on constant open loop while all other readings show that it should be going into closed loop. So I thought to myself, maybe it was tuned for open loop? But I found that strange, why wouldn't Vector tell me that they tuned it in such a way? So I gave them a call and they responded yesterday. I asked him, "My car is always running on open loop now. Did you tune it that way or should I be looking for some sort of issue?" The tuners response, "Well if it's running open loop all the time then I tuned it that way." Uhhhhhh.... Oooooookaaaaaaaay. He had no concern for the issue nor did he care enough to just go in his files and look it up... He just plain didn't care.
The fact that they can't give any technical data, can't follow instructions that are given verbally and written, nor investigate why a car is rating low bothers me. I have a feeling that they just don't give a care for LT engines anymore and expect low ratings. They asked me what I was expecting from my build and I told them, "Oh, I have no idea, I've just done so much I don't have a good guess. If I did, which I do, I would like 420 rwhp." Their response, "Oh... Look, it's an LT1, no way it will get that. Most 383 LT1s we have tuned won't rate as well as LS3s." I'm thinking to myself, if you knew it would rate near an LS3 why did you ask? Just to embarrass me? That being said, I am not happy with their services and am seeking another option.
Sorry, kind of a rant so not great posting structure. I do know that dynos are tuning tools, not for rating power. I was going to wait to see what it was going to do at the track before I searched for another tuner. However, after these recent circumstances I am seeking another tuner now. I simply do not trust their work anymore. Reading about Bakers here, from members who I consider having great cars, I would love to take mine there and see what he can do and tell me. For right now, I need to re-rebuild the trans.
Plum, I thought I knew the guys pretty well too, my father actually owned the building they are in a long time ago, along with the one across the street. I've been using them for 3 years now... I think I didn't mind their work a few years ago because I didn't really know too much about my car. Now that I know most of everything that I can about it their lack of answers bothers me.
Last edited by xDetroitMetalx; January 28th, 2012, 05:39 PM.
BS!!
LT1's can make 420 with a 383, I did it!!
421 RWHP 371FT TRQ through a 6speed with a stock 10 bolt rear. (one I built and tuned by TJ)
Mine was 388/377 with a 6 speed and a 9"
These were both 383's.
I can get you cams # if you would like for both cars.
Last edited by Phantom409; January 28th, 2012, 07:29 PM.
VicePresident of West Michigan Firebird Club A.K.A The Maverick http://www.cardomain.com/ride/660128/1 93 TA Currently Under Construction AGAIN 2007 2500 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab w/ 6.0L & 3.73's
Trust me man, I know they can. I'm pretty big in reading and posting in the LT1 community and I'm highly aware how people have put out some impressive numbers. It's people that don't do the research and just slap together a build that get low numbers. I did a lot of research and spoke to a lot of big names in the game to get where I am today. Unfortunately I've had to battle through some costly mistakes but this car is my first real build so that's bound to happen. Live and learn I suppose. As I said, the rwhp was fairly accurate, a little low. The torque however was extremely low, only 10 or 20 more torques than a stock LT1. In my opinion, that should have lit off some signals to the tuner that something was wrong. 3rd gear must have been slipping the whole damn time and it never felt right after that. When it would shift into 3rd at cruising speed it would slip and hesitate before engaging. At WOT it would slip and go passed 6.5k RPMs. When it did shift into 3rd at WOT it felt as if the car fell on it's face. 1st and 2nd gear though were crazy fast and felt great. There is no doubt in my mind that the trans starved on the dyno.
you could have cycled your car through all the gears PRND21 whatever and checked your fluid a few times. It shouldn't take long for the fluid to get through everything. especially if you atleast put a quart in your converter before plopping it in the trans.
as for numbers. someone that dyno tunes and sees so many cars, that numbers start to not mean much, they make sure the AF is smooth and safe and that your timing is making the engine happy. I know some people like to run open loop tunes, and other like to rely on o2 sensors and run a closed loop. I personally have found more people run open than closed. And as far as injector duty cycle, I'm sure he could have easily checked it, but tuning a pump gas NA car (LTx or LSx) really isn't going to be taxing any injectors so it's not something that he would probably be like "damn I better make sure i'm not running out of injector" heck, on my car I think I glanced at it once, and my duty cycle was around 80% when I had 118 in the tank and high boost..... I'm not defending Vector as I've had both decent and not so decent experiences with him dropping "The Hammer" in the past....... but, hey....these things do happen not that it's an excuse for poor business practices, but out of anyone on here, i've burned up a motor, and a trans or two or five in my day.....
I'm not pissed about them with the trans, I believe it's 100% my fault and I shouldn't have left it to them to check if it was full. I checked what I could and did cycle through the gears but I never got it to temp so I wanted to make sure it was right before they started. What bothers me is that I made it 100% clear that them checking the fluid was expected and they agreed to do it verbally as well as in writing and it was never done. My trans fluid was still where I left it along with the funnel. Whatever I suppose, you have to pay to play and live and learn in the world of moding a car. All I can do is spread the word and find somewhere else to go and find the experience that I'm expecting when I hand out $500. It sounds as though I've had the same relationship with Vector as you have had. Both good and bad results. However, customer service is important to me and in that aspect they fail to deliver. If that guy is great at tunes, awesome, but communication is lacking.
Last edited by xDetroitMetalx; January 29th, 2012, 10:43 AM.
Since Vector's tuner is a sponsor on here, I would recommend sending a PM to Steve (BLKHAWK) and see if you two can't get it resolved afterall. I know Steve and Vector are stand up guys, they'll stand by their work and make it right. Steve tuned my car and it runs strong.
That said, just remember everyone has their off days... there were a couple threads on here over the years with people just as frustrated with TJ at Bakers.
Last edited by meissen; January 29th, 2012, 09:11 AM.
Okay, here is the story. My first experience with them was through Aggressive Motorsports where I thought Aggressive was doing the tuning, once I found out they were just going to Vector I started to go there. My first tune from them was just bolt ons. The tune showed a .5 seconds improvement down the 1/4 mile. I was extremely pleased!
The second time I went straight through them and my car was a cam only... The intake manifold did not seal properly and thus blow by occurred and sufficient timing could not be achieved. Mind you, I do all work myself and just give them the car for tuning purposes, so I can understand how they might be apprehensive with someone's work. It some what bothers me that they do not allow owners to be present during the tune, I'm sorry, but my money and time investment is important to me and I would like to make sure that the proper procedures are being taken during tuning. Well, I stayed in the lobby and the tuner came out and exclaimed, "Your motor is crippled there is something extremely wrong. You need a compression check. There is so much blow by I can't get proper timing. You probably need a rebuild." Well, as said, it was the intake manifold gasket, nothing huge like his hypothesis.
Now the motor is a 383 stroker, forged internals, not a cheap or short cut build to say the least. I ran the car for only 20 miles to bring it there and had Vector do the rest. I made Vector a full list of my modifications as well as instructions that I could not get the transmission to temp and may need more trans fluid. Along with that note I included 3 extra qts of fluid and a trans funnel to add more if needed. I mentioned this to the tuner and told him if he needed ANYTHING or saw any problems to abort the tune so the problem could be fixed, he said if he ran into any issues he would let me know.
Well, within 3 hours one of my new fuel lines blew at the rear axle, not on the dyno thankfully. I was embarrassed at first until I found out it was due to the hose being over clamped and the fittings severed the hose. The hoses and fittings were built by a hose and fittings company, which is their only real business. This was addressed and fixed and tuning resumed the next day. That day my OBDII PCM froze during the tune and was replaced by Vector and the tuning was finished that night. So I picked the car up the next day. The RWHP was a little under what I expected but the torque was EXTREMELY low for an LT1 383 with the cam I had.
So to respond to Plum, I thought there was an issue. So I asked, "Did you run into any problems during the tune?" His response was, "No, it was fine." Which then I started with more questions such as "How were the knock counts? Did you get the timing you wanted?" His answer was, "Yea." "What was the timing?" and his answer was, "I don't remember." I asked him, "What was the injector duty?" His reply was, "Really low." Then I asked if he can print a more detailed sheet with detailed information like that and he said, "No, I don't think it does that."
Welp, last week I believe I found out why the ratings were lower than expected, especially the torque... I lose 3rd gear and OD earlier last week. And why? It was starving for trans fluid and burned up the clutches. I understand this was my fault for giving them the car with the risk of low fluid, but I wanted to make sure it was tuned before I drove it around a lot. When I asked them to fill the trans with fluid if it was low as well as spending time to give them specific instructions and then them saying it wasn't a problem I figured it would be looked after. They knew the car was just finished and started running, I'm just hoping they did the proper load procedures. All they instructed me to make sure of was that there were no leaks, and there wasn't. So when I picked it up and they stated that there were no issues when tuning kind of irritates me. Obviously there was.
Once my trans was acting up I put my scanner on the car and also noticed that it runs on constant open loop while all other readings show that it should be going into closed loop. So I thought to myself, maybe it was tuned for open loop? But I found that strange, why wouldn't Vector tell me that they tuned it in such a way? So I gave them a call and they responded yesterday. I asked him, "My car is always running on open loop now. Did you tune it that way or should I be looking for some sort of issue?" The tuners response, "Well if it's running open loop all the time then I tuned it that way." Uhhhhhh.... Oooooookaaaaaaaay. He had no concern for the issue nor did he care enough to just go in his files and look it up... He just plain didn't care.
The fact that they can't give any technical data, can't follow instructions that are given verbally and written, nor investigate why a car is rating low bothers me. I have a feeling that they just don't give a care for LT engines anymore and expect low ratings. They asked me what I was expecting from my build and I told them, "Oh, I have no idea, I've just done so much I don't have a good guess. If I did, which I do, I would like 420 rwhp." Their response, "Oh... Look, it's an LT1, no way it will get that. Most 383 LT1s we have tuned won't rate as well as LS3s." I'm thinking to myself, if you knew it would rate near an LS3 why did you ask? Just to embarrass me? That being said, I am not happy with their services and am seeking another option.
Sorry, kind of a rant so not great posting structure. I do know that dynos are tuning tools, not for rating power. I was going to wait to see what it was going to do at the track before I searched for another tuner. However, after these recent circumstances I am seeking another tuner now. I simply do not trust their work anymore. Reading about Bakers here, from members who I consider having great cars, I would love to take mine there and see what he can do and tell me. For right now, I need to re-rebuild the trans.
Plum, I thought I knew the guys pretty well too, my father actually owned the building they are in a long time ago, along with the one across the street. I've been using them for 3 years now... I think I didn't mind their work a few years ago because I didn't really know too much about my car. Now that I know most of everything that I can about it their lack of answers bothers me.
Well maybe when you take your car in, you might let them know you have a problem and need help to trouble shoot it more than tune. Every tuner I've ran into tunes what is there and doesn't work on car. They work with what is brought to them to get it to run as best they can. Sounds like trans was already bad and slipping that why you could not make torque numbers, they probably checked fluids and they read ok. you never posted HP and tq number you got. Good luck with new tuner hope it works out.
sigpic
1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.
Well maybe when you take your car in, you might let them know you have a problem and need help to trouble shoot it more than tune. Every tuner I've ran into tunes what is there and doesn't work on car. They work with what is brought to them to get it to run as best they can. Sounds like trans was already bad and slipping that why you could not make torque numbers, they probably checked fluids and they read ok. you never posted HP and tq number you got. Good luck with new tuner hope it works out.
See, now you're defending them but on the wrong point. You're also inserting details in the story that you assume happened. I had no chance to ever know if there was an issue with the trans, if there was one, prior to dropping it off. My best guess is that the clutches burnt up on the dyno due to starvation. The transmission was rebuilt, brand new, along with the torque converter, it was driven straight to Vector. I also did communicate verbally and in writing with them that it MAY be low on fluid and they said it would be looked at. With that even said I already openly admit that the trans was 100% my fault and not theirs, it's something that I should have made sure was taken care of prior to drop off.
When I spoke to Steve on the phone I explained what happened with the trans and told him myself it's nothing that I blame them for. However, what I am complaining about is the lack of detailed information that I would like to know. I have to live with this car, not them. If it was tuned in Open Loop then that should have been something told to me when I picked it up. I'm sorry if I am someone that wants to know specifics about work done to my car instead of just throwing money at it, getting it done and walking away. This car is my money blood sweat and tears, I did all the work with this biuld but bulid the engine as I wanted one set of hands working on it, and the trans as I don't have the proper tools and know how and the tune as I don't have the tools or know how. I know where my limits are when working on a car, thus I hand it to professionals and I'm disappointed if I don't get the work or service I feel I deserve when I fork over hard earned money.
I did not know Steve was a member here but honestly at this point it doesn't matter. I'm a nice person and I work well with people, sadly I do not think they have any urgency to work with me or trouble shoot the issues that I believe involve them. I already decided before posting this thread that I am going somewhere else, I'm just not happy with their services and that's fine. As I said, I know they produce good work and I'm not afraid to drive the car around at this point. However, I need some questions answered before I'm 100% comfortable with it. Hopefully another tuner can give me the answers I seek.
Completely understand your frustrations and feelings. I'd be upset too. If you already have it in your mind that you want to go else where, no sense in anyone trying to talk you into doing otherwise. Some people have great experiences with a tuner, others have bad experiences -- and that goes with every tuner. In the end, it's whatever works for you.
Brian, right! As I said I know Vector does great work. Heck, look at Steve's car, really awesome machine. When I was in there these past three times they have treated me really well and were very hospitable. For all I know my current tune could be spot on. Sadly, I'm struggling to get information to confirm that is so I'm seeking other options. This was not meant to be a post to flame or bash Vector and I hope it hasn't or will turn into one. If anything I hope it helps people take this story in mind when making a choice or help them with what to expect and what questions to ask.
That said, just remember everyone has their off days... there were a couple threads on here over the years with people just as frustrated with TJ at Bakers.
Really? I don't recall...who was unhappy with him?
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