Lutz on 5th-gen engine options for -- 4 cylinder turbo a possibility!

[JoeliusZ28]

yea... i cant say i have ever seen them break or anything like that yet. (besides people who abuse them and anything breaks then). The only evidence I have is how bad ive seen camber angles get when trailering, it looks like it would destroy tires. But i dont really see that problem on GMs... mostly honda's, and some toyotas and fords. I wouldnt want it on an SUV explorer sized or bigger.

I think the only application I would want IRS in is something like a 300C. Something i would never be driving really hard or towing with. I still believe solid axles are the superior workhorse.

[MP81]

...I'd rather have a 10-bolt over an IRS system...

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

I still believe solid axles are the superior workhorse.

For a drag racing application, I would agree.

For any other performance application, I'd take a "well" built IRS.

There's a story out there about Ford taking the first IRS Cobra out for some hot laps at Gingerman during a SCCA event, and having the IRS break coming onto the front stretch after only two laps and the car looping multiple times. I think it's stories like this that have given IRS a bad rap.

However they've been putting IRS in Corvettes for 45 years, and they haven't done too badly...

[DanO]

However they've been putting IRS in Corvettes for 45 years, and they haven't done too badly...

Yup..

The reason solid axles are good for drag racing is that there is no camber change as the rear end 'squats'

and thats the exact reason that solid axles are bad for everything else... you get stuck with 0 camber (essentially)

[JoeliusZ28]

corvette is the one exception Ill make. (remember this is *wanting* IRS, not what i would put up with having it on) You know that is refined for its purpose on a corvette. Ive never seen a corvette having squat issues like i have just about everything else.

why would you want camber in the rear end? I can see *a little* helping the outer wheel when taking hard corners... and thats in applications like corvettes, NOT on everything I see camber angle problems with. You arent going to be taking a honda odyssey around the nurberg ring if you know what i mean... and thats where i think a lot of the problem lies - most IRS seems as thought it is designed for ride quality only.... and no one thought about what would happen when you put a load on it, which is going to happen in many applications that arent sports cars.

and the the other thing Ill never like IRS on is 4 wheelers. A solid axle in that application works as an immovable sway bar. four wheelers with IRS like to dive into corners and feel more apt to rolling instead of powersliding. they also run the half-shafts on REALLY steep angles... which is never good IMO.

[96BlackBetty]

IRS isnt going anywhere.

I think its garbage personally but its the "wave of the future"

Well the wave of the future sux. I want my v8 motor and I think a v8 is what helps describe american muscle. Not no japanese inspired 4 banger turbo. Not on a camaro at least.

[MP81]

Well the wave of the future sux. I want my v8 motor and I think a v8 is what helps describe american muscle. Not no japanese inspired 4 banger turbo. Not on a camaro at least.

Agreed.

[JoeliusZ28]

how is the 4 banger going to prevent you from having your v8?

the more options the better IMO

[DanO]

meh.. i love IRS

the only time i would want a solid axle is if i had a "Drag only" car..

solid axles have SOOOO many downsides.. 2 main ones are Unsprung weight and lack of camber change..

[BP_Z28]

Well the wave of the future sux. I want my v8 motor and I think a v8 is what helps describe american muscle. Not no japanese inspired 4 banger turbo. Not on a camaro at least.

Agreed.

And if/when this comes out. I bet you guys will be the ones drooling saying you wish you had one.

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

meh.. i love IRS

the only time i would want a solid axle is if i had a "Drag only" car..

solid axles have SOOOO many downsides.. 2 main ones are Unsprung weight and lack of camber change..

x2...

[MP81]

And if/when this comes out. I bet you guys will be the ones drooling saying you wish you had one.

Nope.

I got mine, I'm good.

[JoeliusZ28]

what do you mean unsprung weight? the axle itself?

and again lack of camber change is something i personally see as a positive, especially in bigger vehicles like minvans, SUVs, and trucks. I would only want camber change on a car meant to be hugging corners (like corvette).

The other thing that goes hand in hand is that the tires remain the same distance apart. When IRS compresses it has to push the tires outwards too, which doesnt happen with a solid axle. (also why cranking/spacing a supsension is not recommended as it increases that effect) If you had a loaded truck going over large rolling bumps with IRS, the tires would be pushing in-and-out repeatedly... not good.

personally dont even like the independent front suspension on my truck, i might convert it to a solid axle someday for better flex and no more weak half-shafts that start breaking with bigger tires.... however Im very aware the setup it has now is better for the purpose it serves, which is driving

Im not saying IRS is the anti-christ or anything. I would want it on a corvette, i would want in on a G8 - I would not want it on anything utility, off-roaded(unless being jumped), or drag-raced. For example, IRS on the Ford Expedition doesnt seem right to me, as a tahoe competitor, it is expected to tow. Just my opinion, which i know is commonly disagreed with

[DanO]

what do you mean unsprung weight? the axle itself?

and again lack of camber change is something i personally see as a positive, especially in bigger vehicles like minvans, SUVs, and trucks. I would only want camber change on a car meant to be hugging corners (like corvette).

yes, unsprung weight.. now i have the entire weight of the axle moving up and down. This is very bad for maintaining your contact patch when going over bumps. LESS is more in this case.. and you'd be surprised how much of an impact this has. Walk into a room of performance vehicle engineers and tell them you want to increase unsprung weight by 150+lbs.. watch how quickly they throw things at you..

Actually controlling camber is a HUGE plus. You would need to know what application its going into, but having the ability to calibrate the camber profile for the vehilce is awesome!

[JoeliusZ28]

Walk into a room of performance vehicle engineers and tell them you want to increase unsprung weight by 150+lbs.. watch how quickly they throw things at you..

again... i have no problem with IRS in performance vehicles other than drag racing. I understand how controlling camber is beneficial for cornering.

but ive been talking from a utility vehicle standpoint...