Twin Turbo Questions

[Proud Marine Parent]

i guess with the turbo being back there and you ran in a big puddle it could suck in some water lol

theres alot of pipe running charge pipes from the back

its a decent system but not the best, it would be easy to replicate for cheap

Ok on this system from the way it looks the turbos are a couple foot from the end of the tail pipes, so if the car is running that means that it is blowing through the turbo's and out the exhaust, so that would mean if you where in enough water for your turbos to start sucking water in. I think you have a bigger problem than your turbos, Like what the hell am I doing in this lake or you are driving at a high rate of speed in reverse during a heavy down pour! I agree it is a lot of piping but I would think that also cools the air temps coming in and going out which results in a cooler charge which creates MORE POWER. I;m just trying to make sense of all this, You say whatever you do dont run the STS system but why?? It looks like a relatively good design and for around 3 grand! I can run 7-10 psi and have over 350HP!! So where are the drawback on this, that would give me about 150 extra HP for 3 Grand thats $20 Per HP.. Where else can you get that performance for that price??? If the system wasn't any good, how did it win best new product at SEMA and other awards for its design and ease of use?
Jeff

[Superman09]

The length of the piping will in most cases cause more lag, due to much more area the forced air has to move now. Also ground clearance is an issue with all of those pipes running the length of the car. The oiling issue IMO is a pain in the ass. Take my advice and stay far away from anything that uses a scavenge pump to return oil to the engine. Also the STS kit is NOT intercooled. You can add one but from there your on your own going custom. Hope this helps!

[Proud Marine Parent]

its a decent system but not the best, it would be easy to replicate for cheap

You say replicate for cheap? I'm trying to reason out the price difference here, The S/C will run me about 5+ grand running 8-10psi with minor issues and ease of maintainence and about 400HP. The STS system is about 4 grand running w/intercooler 7-10psi for 400HP. it doesn't have to be mounted at the rear of the car, I can mount where Cat is (Its coming out anyways) Pipes can come up where smog pump used to be and go to an intercooler then into the intake, Not a lot of work something I can handle, Then I need a dump pipe that will run down where A/C used to be and out the back with the other exhaust pipe, Oil can be picked up from a relocated filter kit with external ports ran to the turbo then back to the motor. I imagine the passenger floor will need some insulation because of heat. So the passenger is a little uncomfortable, but hey the Ole Lady don't like driving with me anyways! she believes that cars were not meant to be driven slideways LOL!! (this winter the floor is coming out and new toeboard back floorpan is going in, plus subframe connectors & exhaust, so will have great access to install and if thought out right should be easy to maintain) Not only that the sound of a turbo V-8 is awesome. Just trying to gain HP without draining my wallet! I don't mind doing regular or needed work on my car it is something I enjoy so the maintainence thing is no big deal. Drive it break it, make it better and start all over.
I am still trying to figure out what I want LOL!
Pro Charger
Turbo
Remote Mount Turbo
Decisions, Decisions
Thanks
Jeff

[PACE]

They #1 drawback is the oil pump. You have to feed oil back to your engine, Problem is that the pumps dont last long, Whitch can cause engine damage. Nother is that if buy chance you ran over a racoon and it snagged the oil line, Thats not good eather.. Thats the #1 draw back on this system. Is the oil to turbo and back from turbo to engine and dealing with a external oil pump that gives you probles time to time. That you will not want to deal with..

[Proud Marine Parent]

They #1 drawback is the oil pump. You have to feed oil back to your engine, Problem is that the pumps dont last long, Whitch can cause engine damage. Nother is that if buy chance you ran over a racoon and it snagged the oil line, Thats not good eather.. Thats the #1 draw back on this system. Is the oil to turbo and back from turbo to engine and dealing with a external oil pump that gives you probles time to time. That you will not want to deal with..

How do you deal with the oil pump problem? your sig says you have a turbo Firebird & what are you running in your pro street Camaro?? As far as the pumps go, we have been using scavenger pumps on autos for years, such as the 427 side oiler and NASCAR & other forms of racing use a scavenger system on thier cars and have very few problems under severe conditions. If the pump is used for return oil than the only thing that will fail is the turbo because oil is too hot, but it won't make it back to engine Could also employ a oil gauge and oil temp gauge for safety. If I run over a racoon I would Pull over and shut my car down and check for damage. I would do that even if I didn't have turbo lines. I am just trying to reason out the extra 2 grand, Sorry for being a pain but Turbo still is in play.. Not only that My Boy wants a S/C on his Mustang so if that happens Dad will have to go Turbo Maybe even Twin's. LOL

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

You say replicate for cheap? I'm trying to reason out the price difference here, The S/C will run me about 5+ grand running 8-10psi with minor issues and ease of maintainence and about 400HP. The STS system is about 4 grand running w/intercooler 7-10psi for 400HP. it doesn't have to be mounted at the rear of the car, I can mount where Cat is (Its coming out anyways) Pipes can come up where smog pump used to be and go to an intercooler then into the intake, Not a lot of work something I can handle, Then I need a dump pipe that will run down where A/C used to be and out the back with the other exhaust pipe, Oil can be picked up from a relocated filter kit with external ports ran to the turbo then back to the motor. I imagine the passenger floor will need some insulation because of heat. So the passenger is a little uncomfortable, but hey the Ole Lady don't like driving with me anyways! she believes that cars were not meant to be driven slideways LOL!! (this winter the floor is coming out and new toeboard back floorpan is going in, plus subframe connectors & exhaust, so will have great access to install and if thought out right should be easy to maintain) Not only that the sound of a turbo V-8 is awesome. Just trying to gain HP without draining my wallet! I don't mind doing regular or needed work on my car it is something I enjoy so the maintainence thing is no big deal. Drive it break it, make it better and start all over.
I am still trying to figure out what I want LOL!
Pro Charger
Turbo
Remote Mount Turbo
Decisions, Decisions
Thanks
Jeff

I'd also go with your options prioritized as you have them listed.

The STS kit has more cons than pros, but isn't a horrible system. First, I wouldn't worry about water intrusion unless you're driving through 4 inches of water. Driving in rain should be fine.

Being rear mounted, they run much cooler than underhood turbos, which is why they seem to be more popular in the southwest uber-hot climates. A cool turbo is a happy turbo, and more repeatable in what power it delivers. That is about the only "pro" that they offer.

One of the biggest "cons" to me, is I've not seen a STS run dual exhuast...might be one out there, but I've not seen it...

[81DaytonaPaceCar]

How do you deal with the oil pump problem? your sig says you have a turbo Firebird & what are you running in your pro street Camaro?? As far as the pumps go, we have been using scavenger pumps on autos for years, such as the 427 side oiler and NASCAR & other forms of racing use a scavenger system on thier cars and have very few problems under severe conditions. If the pump is used for return oil than the only thing that will fail is the turbo because oil is too hot, but it won't make it back to engine Could also employ a oil gauge and oil temp gauge for safety. If I run over a racoon I would Pull over and shut my car down and check for damage. I would do that even if I didn't have turbo lines. I am just trying to reason out the extra 2 grand, Sorry for being a pain but Turbo still is in play.. Not only that My Boy wants a S/C on his Mustang so if that happens Dad will have to go Turbo Maybe even Twin's. LOL

I think what Pace is suggesting is that this option (o.k., all of these options) cannot be considered simple "bolt ons" if longevity and reliability is to be considered...there's other things that need to be considered in the build (i.e. a high volume oil pump, fuel system, etc...).

As Jonny went through on his journey, he ended up going to a complete forged internal assembly when he was done.

Frankly, I'd think seriously about a built 383, tell the boy it's just a 350, and have your NA motor whup his SC motor...lol...or find a 400 SB, go 406+ cubes...will cost pretty much the same at the end of the day...

[PACE]

Well the Firebird is a 96 v6 3800 turbo car, Custom built by Us. It packs a single turbo, with log type headers.

The pro street camaro is my babby, its a 1992, been a project of mine for 6 yrs, has full chrome moly back half, cert to 8.50. Runs a 406ci small block pushing 630hp & 590tq. car should weigh around 2700 or so.. Soon to start on a LSX procharger Motor project for this ride.

The STS, would work, but the realibilty isnt there like the procharger kits!! thats what it comes down too!! And for your engine, You will end up putting forged internals in it for sure!!

[Proud Marine Parent]

I realize I will need the motor rebuit eventually but I also would like to keep the motor that came with the car. I am deff. going FI of some sort I just need to sort out what I want and what would be best suited for me. The way it sounds is the S/C is pretty much install close the hood and hope like he** you don't throw a belt, the Remote Turbo seems like a good choice due to space in engine bay and heat, Oil seems to be an issue too. But if maintained I dont think that would be an issue.. So I guess I will talk to owners of both systems and review my options and go from there.
Thanks You

[Virtue]

ok think about it you cant mount the turbo under the pass floor board thats just asking to have it ripped off

just mount it in the back.

as for a oil pump you can have a complete oil system seperate from haveing to run lines to the motor ect so their is no hassle there, the pump is just not real cheap.

with a low boost setup 7-10 and the charge pipe being so long comeing from the back of the car you wouldnt need a intercooler, the temps will cool down on the way back to the motor.


this way you can keep your exhaust the way it is, weld up a flange at the pipe over the axle slap a turbo on it brace then the down pipe doesnt have to be but 12 inches and depending on if you build your own kit you could maybe find a internal wastegated turbo and not have to worry about routeing pipe for a external

have your oil setup seperate from the motor all contained in the rear and have a less of a headache

for how ieasy it would be id go this route

my .02

but everyone has their own beliefs on why this system sucks and ect.

theres plenty of videos ive seen of cars performing very well with these

i reasearched it quite a bit before i decided to stay all motor

i say a kit built by your self could be had for 2k easily

i bought a brand new borgwarner diesel turbo off craigslist for 150 last year for one of my 4 cylinder cars it wasnt gonna spool till prolly 4k on that but it was gonna be a highway car lol

[Superman09]

The problem with the oil scavenging pumps is that IMO, they do not flow enough and also eventually die out after time. Sure some people don't have issues with them, but i am speaking from experience here. Mine battled to keep up causing me turbo smoking issues. With the requirement for a pump you also have to think harder here..... being it wont gravity drain, hence needing the pump, this means that when you shut the car off, all that oil in the line doesn't get pumped back and it sits in the line at the turbo. This oil then gets backed up in the turbo and will eventually blow through causing smoking and or leaking. I battled the ENTIRE time with my first system with smoking and leaking issues due to the pump set-up, they are a pain in the ass, simple as that. From my experience i started with twins on a stock motor. I didn't like the set-up as stated above so i redid everything and built up a forged 347 and switched to a different TT kit. This kit gravity drained and had many more pluses than the first system. With a forged motor and FI, you will have the best of both worlds. I was able to boost to 13 PSI with ease on pump gas which put down 667rwhp to the tire through my auto trans on a load based mustang dyno. This was an easy 700 on a dynojet and arguably close to 800 at the motor. Being down that route, i still suggest a blower! It will save you many headaches.

[Hugger Z]

I am personally a fan of twin turbo's here. I have the APS kit and it went on just over a year ago. 14k miles later I am still DDing the car and having fun with it. This kit mounts the turbo's near the trans bellhousing. They gravity drain back to the oilpan. I have been wondering if this kit would work on a 3rd gen as the sheet metal under the cars is VERY similar.

As for my engine it is basically stock. Just upgraded valvesprings and pushrods. And of course the fuel system. I used the racetronix in-tank pump with 60lb injectors. Set up with a safe street tune on 92 octane and have had no issues. Just get in and go. Turbo's went on at 89k and I have over 103k now. And just set a new personal best at the track this past weekend with it.

Yes twins are a little more complicated with piping and such. But as you said, there is no better sound the a V8 with hairdryers. One of my personal favorites!

[Corviparo]

I know that I am late to the party... but what the heck...I am a fellow turdgen owner and am running my own custom single turbo set-up.

A few years ago I was also looking at various options in the pursuit of more power. Turbos, superchargers, nitrous, big cubes, you name it. The questions posed by Pace are similar to the questions that i asked myself. This is what I found-

Nitrous is cool, quick, and effective no doubt. But I didn't want to rely on a power source that was "consumable". Not to mention it's a bit too stereotypical for mullet toting, high-top wearing, thirdgen lovin' Camaro drivers.

Superchargers are hard to beat because of their bolt-on-n-go appeal. The wrench vs. reward factor is very high, but they can be quite pricey. Plus the packaging seemed kind of weird to me for the thirdgen application.

The turbo won out for me because it could make more power at a same given cubic inch, boost, and RPM than a supercharger. Boost is also less stressful on engine components than massive RPM, crazy cams, or the dreaded NOS!! Plus it is unique compared to most of the other f-bodies you see out on the streets.

And like you said - a boosted V8 sounds sweet!!!

[Proud Marine Parent]

I am seriously thinking out a Twin Turbo Sysytem. The car is going to be a daily driver but that is only a few miles a day and weekend rips to area shows and such. I am thinking about eliminating the spare tire area and the storage area on the driver side to set the turbos up under the car and using this area to pick up cold air that will be away from the elements. This would put my Turbos up higher than the oil pan, plus keep them dry and out of harms way, It would also eliminate the need for an intercooler.. Just thoughts for now! I have to really figure things out, also with Twin Turbos I can keep the 305 that the car was born with and still have a car that will be hard to beat!!!
Jeff

[Virtue]

a twin rear mount setup? a single will be enough to beat on alot of cars, twin vs single can still work on a 305 you kinda worded that a twin would allow you to keep the 305.