No start, no nothing, zilch

[Darren]

he could just test to see if he's getting power to the starter, if no power could be a fuse bad wire or something. Did you check all your fuses?

[steddy]

$10, I'll up Larry's offer. I do love those '89s.

[greco]

Yes, Tstone,I did try your procedure, but all I got was the same dash light up, but no noise of any kind at the starter/solenoid. Thanks for the idea.

What I meant by cont test was just to see if there is juice to the starter when the key is on...and nope, there isn't.

Next I check the fuses, and then the sec relay in the kick panel.
Are you referring to the fuse panel under the dash, or something under the hood??

I don't have a good wiring diagram for the VATS system, if anyone has one, hows bout posting it or shooting me a copy of the page .

Man, this stuff makes me tired.

$10.00...now I'm sorely tempted. The missus asked how much I could get for it on trade in. Not a good sign.8-O

[phoenix_rising]

$15... Good luck, I hate tracking down electrical problems.

[phoenix_rising]

Electrical gremlins suck $15...

[lozanoa11]

it should be a white wire for the vats system going into you steering column. check for brakes in it near the lock set.

[98blackbeauty]

Electrical gremlins suck $15...

did you go to shbox.com Look at elctrical diagrams for VATs I know its for later but the best I can do for you. the 4th gen vats or sec module is located up under dash to left of steering column. Sorry but I don't have anything for 3rd gen
I'll up the offer to $25.00

[greco]

Thanks for the help guys/gals. I printed off the shbox diagrams. Now the fun part...oye!

Now the ms is complaining we have to leave for vacation this weekend, and if I don't get it done by Sunday, the lawn mower will be blocked until August when I get back. So I will be pushing the car around the driveway all weekend unless I find the prob. I'm tempted to yank the Steering whl off first to see if a wire is broke, but I want to do this in an orderly fashion. Fuses first, then relays, then VATS then Sec relay, then key cyl... Then, I may take the $25.00.

[98blackbeauty]

Do you have a volt meter? if you locate the 2 wires coming from the ignition switch for the VATs they will be seperate from the other ignition wires you could put to key in and measure the resistance across the 2 wires. Should be 400 to 2000 ohms. then there is no need to pull steering column. If you have a wire diagram you can measure voltage on the start and run wires. I use a pin to push through wire to measure voltage. Biggest part of this is locating stuff. My offer is open for acceptance at any time LOL

[greco]

Well, I removed the resistor, and measured it with a VOM and it was within spec, and the chip in the key was real close to it. So I tried the key with the proper chip, and nothing happened (resistor removed from the wiring). SSDD.

So I guess the next trick will be to check some fuses and the secondary relay in the left kick panel. thanks again for being patient with me on this electrical torture.

[greco]

Well, replaced the secondary relay in the left kick panel. New resistors in vats line. Still nada. Man, I am not real patient with this electrical stuff. I don;t know where to go from here. Any suggestions?? Anybody wanna trade for a car that runs...?

[chevyman9306]

I would follow the power to the starter with the VOM...go one section to the next until you get to the section with out power and that would be your problem...if you make it to the starter with power then I would say that your starter is bad or your battery is bad...

[greco]

Sounds like the plan. I'll go from there. At this point, when I turn the key to start, you can actually hear and feel the relay at the secondary relay click. So now I gotta see where we go from here. It sure sux to be without wheels. Luckily I got my cycle. Until winter. If I can't figure this out in a couple of days, the car goes to the dealer towards another car. He said he'd gimme the $4500 for the Gov't clunker trade in. I hate to see it go, because everything is new on it and it has no rust at all, but I gotta have wheels, and don't have much time. I gotta leave for the left coast in a few days.

Any offers??

[jetice]

He said he'd gimme the $4500 for the Gov't clunker trade in.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! one of the conditions of that program is that the car has to be crushed!!!!!!! one more piece of the Pontiac heritage gone!!!

[greco]

Thursday:
Well, I put in the new starter, hooked the exhaust up, connected the battery, and poof...nothing again. Hmmm> I noticed the security light goes out when you turn the key. So, I have put in new resistors, new secondary relay, new starter. What next..?? Is there anything left..? When I hit the key, should anything change on the wires going to the starter.?? I have 3 red wires going to the big post, and one slightly smaller black wire going to another post. The third post (S terminal) has nothing hooked up....where do I look from here??

Friday:
OK, so my bud comes over to help me. We trace the circuits again. Looking at the very poor schematics in the Haynes manual. Says 2 wire colors to the starter (3 hot=red, one purple, one terminal not used). Starter is wired ok, but still nothing. So it says a yellow wire out of column to shift interlock, then purple from there to starter.

So how the hell do you get to the top of the trans and check the shift interlock?. I removed console and I'll be go to hell, there is the trans shift interlock on top. At the front is a connector with 5-6 leads, two of which are pretty thick (like #10 wire). One is green, and one is purple. We do a Ohmmeter test. Nada when key is off, hot when key is on...hmmm. So I bend a copper wire into a "U" and connect it between the 2 fat wires. Try to start, lights dim, and I smell wires...not good. But when key is at start, all the dash lights dim...not right.

This can only mean there is a dead short somewhere. So I crawl underneath again. I see way up the purple wire has another purple wire spliced to it, running up to the top of the engine compartment. I tell my bud to grab it and tell me where it goes. He pulls it, and the end is just laying there, it is dead shorting against the right fender. I'll be a m..f. So I snip this wire, and put a twist cap on it. We get in the car and hit the key. The starter spins but no engage. WTF!?!?!

So I get underneath, drop the exhaust, remove the wires from the new starter, install the old starter, hook up the exhaust again.

We hit the key and the engine spins twice and starts..........wuh?

I shut it off. And shake my head. I start it again to make sure it really did.

We lower the car, put the console back together, and go for a ride. It's running great. I go to a health food store and he makes me buy him a bowl of bean soup and a raspberry smoothie. Damn, he's an expensive date. We hop back in the car and go home. Problem solved...

Now all I gotta do is put the interior back together. At this point the hush panel, left kick panel, and threshhold molding are on the back floor....

I think the dead short in the starter wire backed up and burned the secondary relay out becase it was fried. Otherwise, the only other thing wrong with the car was that the former owner, trying to bypass the VATS system had left a wire that shorted out the starting system.

And that's how I spent my Friday