Anyone in the landscaping business know of propane powered equiptment?

[r1cefed]

I thought you guys on here would appreciate this. Over the last month my Dad and I have been developing an absolute seamless propane conversion kit for small gasoline engines (1-100hp). This kit works off vapor propane and fumigates the intake using his patented vacuum controlled LPG regulator. The beauty of it is you can leave the gas tanks in place as well. (if you choose to do so) If you run out of propane just turn the gas valve on and away you go on gasoline again. No modifications to the motor other than tapping 2 ports in the intake. This is still in the final stages of development. None are for sale yet unfortunatley. Not that it doesnt work but we need adequite instructions printed for multiple engines.

My reason for the post is I would like input on what people in this field know about propane powered vehicles so far? From my understanding people sort of poo-poo on it because of the lack of power, terrible throttle response(think of bog when you throttle up a forklift) and enormous gas consumption. Also many small engine conversions I see are not variable. They simply are a regulator just dumping 1.2 cfm at all times. The motor idles on the same amount of fuel as it does wide open. (User feathers throttle/adjusts gas flow until rpm slowly comes up every time the motor changes load or rpm) Like I said some are a serious joke that it can even be sold let alone getting government contracts for it.

Somebody please give me some feedback. We have made a kit that revs up faster and smoother than the motor on gasoline like I said (completley seamless). Would this spark more interest in conversions combined with a decent price?

Here is a rough video of a Toro Zero turn with a 28hp Kawasaki motor running on pure propane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8AI8...ature=youtu.be

My BIG question is has anybody seen a mower running on propane run that good? Price for a full kit will be between 500-600 out the door. Compared to some that are $3000 and 1. run like crap, and 2. are under powered.

We have purchased competitors kits just to see how they work compared to ours. So far all I will say is we are not impressed with anybodys yet. Not only from an engineering standpoint but from a overall performance as well. Very sad to see stimulus $$ poured into crude junk when 2 guys can make a far superior product in a month with no assistance.

All input is appreciated. If anyone is willing to let me use a different type of mower for advertisable results/writing install instructions I can pretty much guarantee you a free conversion kit installed after we collect data. I want to get as many motors successfully running as possible for more validity when we put this on the market and go for extensive testing.

[sman]

The question is, is it worth it? How long is a 15lb'er gonna last on that zero turn? Propane is NOT cheap.

[Gregs_gsxr]

great idea for sure, but Spencer is right, 20 bucks to exchange the gas grill tank. Running a full landscaping trailer maybe cost more then fuel.

[r1cefed]

It is more for somebody concerned with a tax credit, or municipalities/bigger companies in states like Florida that have things called o-zone days, where they are not suppose to run anything gas powered for a designated time. Bigger places that are more self-sufficient most of the time have a propane pig on the property. They simply fill off of that and get a better rate when they buy propane in bulk. For these places it is cheaper for them to convert if they do not burn it like crazy. (old innefficient systems method of delivery) Fortunatley for me these people have a TON of tractors. Sucks for them though because the EPA says you cant start this tractor for days at a time. That means you arent making money.

It has its place. Maybe not here, but other places that get hammered with "green" legislation. This is a great alternative to the existing expensive products that simply do not work as well. I agree and am a firm believer in clean power. It is a good thing. However I think the "green" movement is the biggest croanie capitalism scheme ever devised. All I have to say is look up Al Gore and trading carbon credits. His inside circle had companies in place to trade carbon credits before a carbon credit was even introduced. All the crap going on currentley makes sense. Makes it impossible for anyone not in the circle to get access to stimulus/grants to expand because "friends and contributors" have been in line for years.

[r1cefed]

They hook these things up with tons of propane. Badass looking. They run off liquid propane though. Like a forklift does. Liquid propane tanks. Not vapor tanks.

We dont let any fluid quanity of fuel out of the tank with a vaporizer of some kind. We run off of the constant vapor pressure on the top of the tank making it last longer. Similar to how a lighter works and why that little bit of butane lasts so long. It is only using the evaporated gas that constantly pressurizes the inside. Very efficient use of fuel.

We are not trying to turn a liquid to a gas or vapor in a mixer or an injector like gasoline or liquid propane engines. We already have it on a constant rate. That is why it lasts so much longer aside from the improved method of distribution.

[Gregs_gsxr]

ahh ok, I still think its a great idea.

[r1cefed]

Thanks Greg, Like I said maybe not for people around here, but useful for people who need or want it. Hopefully it will be a profitable venture for us as well. If anything it is a cool experiment. Maybe get rid of some misconceptions on propane powered vehicles due to poor engineerig.

[c0ncEpT]

So you say its efficient buy how long are we talking about here? Are you going to be able to run a zero turn for say 24 hours or more on a tank setup like you posted above?

I think its a pretty good idea. I'm all for adding efficiency to things as long as its cost effective.

[r1cefed]

That's what we are figuring out today. A gallon:gallon ratio. So far we know 1.3 gallons per hour at the governed w.o.t. it is pretty efficient. We need an exact gallon of gasoline/hour number now at the same speed/load to answer you correctly on that Mike. But we are not using an absurd amout by any means. Strapped with two 7 gallon tanks it should run over a 10 hour work day under any circumstances. Left at w.o.t all day no breaks. A 12-14 hour day of normal use is not out of the question. I don't know how far the gasoline goes yet for exact fact. Not bad though for a 28hp zero turn I wouldnt expect the gas number to be far off from that.

Forgot to mention oil life and cleanliness is incredible. Would be interesting to have some testing done to see how much oil life you get from running propane vs. gas, but I can say it comes out looking real clean. Some companies change oil in the mowers every 100 hours. There could be money saved in extending this. As well as the life of the motor itself with little to no carbon build up it has to improve it.

[Dummybait]

That's what we are figuring out today. A gallon:gallon ratio. So far we know 1.3 gallons per hour at the governed w.o.t. it is pretty efficient. We need an exact gallon of gasoline/hour number now at the same speed/load to answer you correctly on that Mike. But we are not using an absurd amout by any means. Strapped with two 7 gallon tanks it should run over a 10 hour work day under any circumstances. Left at w.o.t all day no breaks. A 12-14 hour day of normal use is not out of the question. I don't know how far the gasoline goes yet for exact fact. Not bad though for a 28hp zero turn I wouldnt expect the gas number to be far off from that.

Forgot to mention oil life and cleanliness is incredible. Would be interesting to have some testing done to see how much oil life you get from running propane vs. gas, but I can say it comes out looking real clean. Some companies change oil in the mowers every 100 hours. There could be money saved in extending this. As well as the life of the motor itself with little to no carbon build up it has to improve it.

I bought a propane powered weedeater at Menards last summer.... it was actually a rebadged craftsmen..and they sold them at Menards.. anyway.. i the only reason i buought it cause is was cheap...like $80. It runs on those 1 pounders. Gotta say.. i was impressed with the performance... however the throttle response is hideous lol. God forbid you take your finger off the throttle it takes ahile to get those rpms back up but then again, it is a 4 stroke after all. I love it because you don't smell like gas/oil mix... there is literally no smell. Oil has barley changed color though i used the piss out of it this last summer. As far as...erm.. mileage.. a 1 pounder lasts about 3 hours of heavy use. lol... i should strap a 20 pounder to my back and do a 24 hour marathon lol.

[r1cefed]

Those litttle weedeaters are the type of systems I was talking about that just draw a steady amount of propane lol. Thats why you have to feather it to rev up and not very efficient on propane. Still though for 80$ you cannot complain I am sure it does its job. 3 hours is not to bad either for a 1lb. Just a little refining on the way its distributed would make all the difference in the world on the way it ran and make it more user friendly.

I have a 4 stroke weed whip sitting in the garage. That is my project for the next week lol.

[Dummybait]

Those litttle weedeaters are the type of systems I was talking about that just draw a steady amount of propane lol. Thats why you have to feather it to rev up and not very efficient on propane. Still though for 80$ you cannot complain I am sure it does its job. 3 hours is not to bad either for a 1lb. Just a little refining on the way its distributed would make all the difference in the world on the way it ran and make it more user friendly.

I have a 4 stroke weed whip sitting in the garage. That is my project for the next week lol.

Another thing i noticed and maybe its just me..but the performance deminished slightly after the tank is frosted... which probably makes sense..

and yeah i noticed you have to ease back into it... which is why it is better just to keep the hammer down lol

[r1cefed]

S

Another thing i noticed and maybe its just me..but the performance deminished slightly after the tank is frosted... which probably makes sense..

and yeah i noticed you have to ease back into it... which is why it is better just to keep the hammer down lol

Scott I was about to convert the weed whacker and seen that I had this in the barn. (Forgot about it havnt touched it all winter)
It is modded slightly with a TB parts hot cam and cdi rev box with a ported head and 1 layer gasket. Ran decent bit sucks when it is cold. A stock bike would be even easier. But this runs on100% propane now. Runs stronger than before because I needed bigger jets. Now it has all the fuel it needs.

Everything is prototyped. I will scale it down and clean it up inside the frame with 2 of those bottlesmounted on the frame rail where the.gas tank is.

That 1 bottle lasted 2.5 hours in the.cold and still has 35psi in it never ran out.. 2 bottles on a hot day are plenty for a toy.

[r1cefed]

Also notice the response this has. Nothing like the traditional kits everyone is familiar with. More power/response than on gas.


http://youtu.be/KvHbCnl9EFw

[sman]

Pretty impressive stuff.