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**wezeles** · February 11th, 2006, 02:31 AM

is there anything besides a buffing wheel that will work? i really dont want to buy a wheel just for myself... could i use like a low rpm drill with a buffer attachment... i have tons of drills with adjustable rpm speed on most of them... and my buddy has a buffer attachment that will fit a drill chuck? just dont want to buff right to the metal... making sure ahead of time

**SS4Matt** · February 11th, 2006, 05:10 AM

well here is my "opinion" and this is what i do everyday (pretty much) at work... we clay bar anything before it is wheeled...especially a dark color!...if there is any "debris" in the paint and you start to rub, the wheel will usually pick up that little piece of dirt and scratch the F--- outta your paint as you wheel / "polish". claybar is good to do maybe 2 or 3 times a "season" / year. and the only thing to cover up "swirleys" / "wheel marks" is to wax!...a "rotary buffer" only covers up wheel marks by putting in new scratches that are not unifrom like scratches from a wheel. basically if i rub out a black or dark car and leave some wheel marks... i just wax it very hard so i put in new scratches to try to cover up the circular scratches that form "wheel marks/swirleys"...... if you wheel a car you will get wheel marks!....it's a fact. the key to being good at wheeling out a car is how well you can hide it!....basically all clay bar does is clean your paint and make it feel smooth!...that's just my $0.02!

**93formulalt1** · February 11th, 2006, 10:51 AM

As far as I know, my car has never been claybarred. The most it has had is probably the wheeling it got after the new paint job. The previous owner didn't seem to care much about the car. It was bone stock when I got it except for the Clarion CD player and the paint job. I think I'll claybar it once after the body repairs and paint are completed.

**meissen** · February 11th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by wezeles

is there anything besides a buffing wheel that will work? i really dont want to buy a wheel just for myself... could i use like a low rpm drill with a buffer attachment... i have tons of drills with adjustable rpm speed on most of them... and my buddy has a buffer attachment that will fit a drill chuck? just dont want to buff right to the metal... making sure ahead of time

normally when you buy buffers, the ones to get are called "random-orbital buffers." The problem with using a drill bit is that it's spinning around in the same spot, whereas the random orbital buffer is going to be all over the place and not be buffing the same circle over and over again. I'd recommend just getting the porter cable.

**JoeliusZ28** · February 11th, 2006, 12:52 PM

ive wheeled cars before and not left marks, its possible to pull off, just not easy. The dipshits at the dealership i bought my truck from put a nice burn right in the dead center of my hood... its invisible when waxed, but stands out once the wax disappears... its a nice reminder that i need a wax job lol. BTW wezels if your looking for someone to wheel your car i can probably do it for ya. I wouldnt advise using a drill, that sounds like you are just asking to slip and burn. just understand that my work is not insured or anything... if i make a burn mark theres nothing i can do about it.

**JoeliusZ28** · February 11th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by meissen

normally when you buy buffers, the ones to get are called "random-orbital buffers." The problem with using a drill bit is that it's spinning around in the same spot, whereas the random orbital buffer is going to be all over the place and not be buffing the same circle over and over again. I'd recommend just getting the porter cable.

random orbital buffers are completely different than rotary buffers. they are generally for applying wax, and there is little to no risk in using one. theyre also dirt cheap. my ryobi was 25 bucks. However, you arent going to polish paint with an orbital buffer.

The purpose of a rotary buffer is essentially to resurface the paint (thats why you should never use one unless you need to). I wheeled my cousins '68 Coronet RT with mine - had no clear coat, so it was even more of a challenge. When i started, the paint literraly felt like sandpaper. When I was done, the paint beaded and shined like it had 4 coats of wax on it, and his only sacrifice was one tiny 1/4" burn mark on a sharp body edge by the drivers mirror. We also discovered a metallic paintjob beneath the sandpaper that we started with.

**Derek** · February 11th, 2006, 01:06 PM

the meguiars three step process works great for me, in fact i just did it a couple days ago, really makes the red stand out in my car and makes it super smooth, its just a paint cleaner to start, then the polish, then i usually just finish up with some NXT tech wax.

**meissen** · February 11th, 2006, 01:06 PM

d'oh, my bad. I was thinking the porter cable was the random orbital, it's the dual action polisher.

**SS4Matt** · February 11th, 2006, 01:24 PM

I've got a Makita wheel. it was like $200 or something like that? but lemme tell you it's paid for itself in 2 jobs at my work!

i know it's possible to burn paint and stuff....but you have to be like totally not paying attention. i can wheel out a car and say the hood has some scratches...i can heat the paint up so much that when i stop and spray some "spray wax" on it to wipe it off and see how it's coming out... i can make the wax smoke off it gets so hot...and i've never burned the paint before....new paint is a different story though...and moldings are easy to burn..but i tape that stuff off B4 i wheel

**02hawk796** · February 11th, 2006, 06:58 PM

A few clarifications:

Polish (noun) is a product to apply on your paint. This is what Zaino is. All waxes are abrasive, to differing degrees - Zaino Polish is not.

polish (verb) is the process of polishing or buffing, often using a polishing compound, which is a finer version of rubbing compound. Polishing is always abrasive. This is not what Zaino Polish is.

Please do not intermix the two terms, they are not the same, they are not similar, and it is confusing to all involved when the terms are intermingled.

Some have said that buffing is ok, and that wheeling does not cause scratches or swirls, but even they admit that "burns" or "melts" can occur, they just know how to cover up the errors.
COME ON!!
Wheeling is the lazy way of doing things, right? professional wheelers are just professionally lazy, OK? It is not cost effective for a business that is scarfing up the cash to actually take the time to do it all right, but there is no need to try to B.S. us, OK?
If you want your paint wheeled, that is fine - just don't assume the same care will be gleaned as when you use your own elbow grease. And the point of this thread is Claybarring, which is the most time-consuming activity or task in the paint care/appearance process - and it should never be done with a wheel or motorized accessory. Once the claybarring is done, the rest is easy, and there is no need for and motorized applications, unless you are doing wax, which I mentioned shouldn't need any claybarring prior to wax application.

If you want the claybarring done, do it yourself (or with a friend, if they have experience), and then you are home free. If it takes 10 min to entirely do your whole car after the claybarring, what are you saving by having somebody else attack your paint with a wheel?

Mention has been made of my car's polish. It is not a good example. The pic in my avatar is resized down drastically, from a pic created with only a 4.3 megapixel camera, standing 2-3 carlenths away, and the Zaino on my car in this pic is only 1 or 2 coats, applied more than 12 months before this pic was taken - only rinsing done in between.
To see some Zaino results, chekc out '00 Hawk #453. Gerry's Hawk is much more well taken care of than mine, he has several coats of Zaino, and he has a much better camera.
visit http://www.ragtime88.com/firehawk

When I said "lubricate the claybar" activity, I meant to keep the paint soaked in the carwash solution - the paint should at all times look like it is submerged in water (or soap) at the spot you are applying the claybar. One hand should be regularly spritzing, like a pump per revolution of claybar.

Most Zaino fans I know choose to claybar once in the spring, or once every 2nd or 3rd spring. If you are applying Zaino coats during the year, there should be no reason to claybar unless you need to strip down to bare paint for some other reason.

I like Zaino because I wanted my cars to look like other cars that I found looked fantastic. I've been doing cars (I prefer black) for 25 years, and now that I've found Zaino, I have no plans to leave it. I learned the hard way - I don't need to convince you to take my advice, because you will not be using my arms and elbows to do your work.

My personal number one tip for claybarring - USE A DROPCLOTH!!!! Guarantee you will drop your claybar at least once. Without the drop cloth (that you don't step on), you will need to cut off the face of the claybar that contacted the ground - if the claybar rolled after hitting, you have to cut off all exposed faces.

**SS4Matt** · February 11th, 2006, 07:09 PM

02hawk796 All waxes are abrasive

Wheeling is the lazy way of doing things, right? professional wheelers are just professionally lazy, OK? It is not cost effective for a business that is scarfing up the cash to actually take the time to do it all right, but there is no need to try to B.S. us, OK?

im pretty much 100% certain that wax is not abrasive. compound usually is however

also i don't consider myself professionally lazy! when a car has gone through a drive through carwash a million times and is covered in towel scratches, hard water marks, and other surface scratches, no wax will fix that, a wheel with "counpound" is the only way to really fix that

**02hawk796** · February 11th, 2006, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by SS4Matt

im pretty much 100% certain that wax is not abrasive. compound usually is however

also i don't consider myself professionally lazy! when a car has gone through a drive through carwash a million times and is covered in towel scratches, hard water marks, and other surface scratches, no wax will fix that, a wheel with "counpound" is the only way to really fix that

If wax is not abrasive, how does it put scratches and swirls into the paint?
Wax will buff out water spots.
If you leave a waterspot on your paint, and apply Zaino, that water spot will remain there until you strip the Zaino off.

Wax is LESS abrasive than polishing compound, not devoid of abrading ability.
Polishing compound is also less abrasive than rubbing compound, that doesn't make it non-abrasive.
Polishing is also less abrasive than buffing compound. They are all just varying degrees.
30 year old cars with origianal paint and regular waxing have their paint "shallowed out" so you can see through the paint to the metal beneath - that is because the wax was abrading the paint over the years.

**meissen** · February 12th, 2006, 12:21 AM

I do have to agree with wax being abrasive. P21S pure carnuba wax and Meguiar's Gold Class to name a couple contain no abrasives, but otherwise most waxes do contain abrasives -- which is why they don't layer.

**JoeliusZ28** · February 12th, 2006, 02:34 AM