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LT1 vs LS1 it's a question of torque

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  • #1

    LT1 vs LS1 it's a question of torque

    Was looking for LT1 vs LS1 torque graphs when I came across this link of an old discussion.
    The key post is Fred's (Injuneer) who is a well known guy on many Forums and always comes up with quality answers to most everyones questions. The topic was LT1 vs LS1 low end torque which has been a subject of debate on many forums including this one. My original search was for a Graph that I seen in a Magazine years ago that overlayed LT1 and LS1 Horsepower and Torque figures I distinctly remember seeing the power out put of the LT1 being similar if not slightly better then the LS1 below 2-2500 rpm. I never found the graph but this discussion, specifically the post by Injuneer is quite enlightening.

    http://www.f-body.com/forum/printthread.ph...age=1&pp=15

    I'm not looking to start an LT vs LS war here just looking for a little discussion.
    Craig
    Semi Retired Street Racer
    2012 Lava Red Mustang GT 5.0 MT82
    GONE BUT NOT FORGOTEN
    sigpic
    NBM `98 Formula M6 HdTp
    1 of 1 Build Date 3/12/98

    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

    "For you who believe all you read, I caution you - you are daily being brainwashed for profit by extremely effective psychology with very little regard to factual accuracy. In short, you're at the mercy of the world's greatest bullshit artists with the morals of a stray tomcat."
    - Smokey Yunick
    Tags: 250, 3.42, 3.73, 500, body, camaro ss, camaro z28, discussion, end, found, guy, horsepower, key, link, low, ls1, lt1, magazine, original, post, question, questions, rpm, star, start, thread, torque, war, years
  • #2
    There is really nothing to discuss here. The torque advantage of an LT1 is no doubt marginal if it exists at all. What fred says is correct. the power curves of each engine are very different, and it does have a way of playing with your head. But --- as another fact, LT1 and LS1 power & torque curves are completely different. LT1s make torque well before they make their peak power.

    The dyno graph of the 383 stroker at the dyno day was a PRIME example. it looked nothing like any of the LS1 dyno charts.

    In my opinion it has a lot to do with head flow. My old TBI 350 in my truck had a ridiculous ammount of torque at 1500 RPM. But those heads are an epic fail in the top end, rating the engine at a whalloping 185 hp. Comparing it to my new truck is the same argument. My new truck with the vortec heads just doesnt have the same low end grunt, any way you look at it. It still has enough to roast the tires from a stop but the low RPM brute force isnt there. It can make power down there but you can just tell a different setup would make more. My new one would walk all over my old truck in a drag race, but hook them together with a tow strap - im really not sure which one I would put my money on. I know one thing - without the new tune in my truck that added about 40 ft pounds of tq down low.... my money would for sure be on the TBI.
    Last edited by JoeliusZ28; January 30th, 2010, 03:49 PM.
    -Joel
    1995 Z28 M6 - AI226/234 - autocross ricer
    1984 Scottsdale K10 - 305/4bbl/4spd


    WTB List:Midwest Chasis DS Loop

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    • #3
      didnt even read any of the post and just by the title I can tell its time to LOCK THIS ONE UP

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ThreeHonks View Post
        didnt even read any of the post and just by the title I can tell its time to LOCK THIS ONE UP
        ah no, Craig started this one with good intentions hes just looking to get some informational discussion out of his original post. Post up your opinion/thoughts Ryan I'm interested in reading them!
        sigpic
        1992 Chevy Camaro 25th Anniversary-SOLD
        1992 Chevy Camaro 25th Anniversary
        1997 Chevrolet Corvette

        The Original
        Originally posted by meissen
        I actually agree with Darren on everything he said...
        Originally posted by 81DaytonaPaceCar
        Yep, pretty much...not too often I agree 100% with Darren, but there it is...


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        • #5
          Yep Me too! with almost everyone doing mods to their car it would be interesting to see the "original" power curve charts. Its not I'm or he's faster thread.
          sigpic
          1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.

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          • #6
            the link sounds similar to the other debates I have read on this subject, look at Spencer's dyno graph. He has an LS truck motor but his torque curve is significantly different than mine or a bolt on LS1 yet it isn't actually greater.
            Doing less with more


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Darrenscamaro View Post
              ah no, Craig started this one with good intentions hes just looking to get some informational discussion out of his original post. Post up your opinion/thoughts Ryan I'm interested in reading them!
              Originally posted by Plum Nuts View Post
              Yep Me too! with almost everyone doing mods to their car it would be interesting to see the "original" power curve charts. Its not I'm or he's faster thread.
              Thanks guys, Like I said I don't want this to turn into a hate war just a spirited discussion.
              Things to remember is there aren't many members on here that were around (or old enough) to remember when the LS1 was new.
              I was there, as I purchased my LS1 in the early spring of `98 and street raced it heavily that summer. So you can say I have quite a bit of experience when it comes to the stock vs stock debate. Also my previous car was an LT1 Formula so I have some experience with LT1's aswell.
              Also want to point out that a street race is not indicative of a specific car vs car outcome. But is merely a test of nerve and experience between to drivers. In short just because you beat this one car doesn't mean that you will beat all of the same make and model, as driver experience plays a bigger role then most would think.
              Craig
              Semi Retired Street Racer
              2012 Lava Red Mustang GT 5.0 MT82
              GONE BUT NOT FORGOTEN
              sigpic
              NBM `98 Formula M6 HdTp
              1 of 1 Build Date 3/12/98

              "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

              "For you who believe all you read, I caution you - you are daily being brainwashed for profit by extremely effective psychology with very little regard to factual accuracy. In short, you're at the mercy of the world's greatest bullshit artists with the morals of a stray tomcat."
              - Smokey Yunick

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              • #8
                The LT1 may make more torque sooner on a dyno graph but I really dont think it is a big enough margin to make a difference compared to an LS1. Both are good motors, and yes, obviously as '02 WS6 would run away from a 94 Camaro Z28 (stock vs. stock).

                I think on two very similar year cars (97 LT1 vs. 98 LS1) that it is a drivers race. I know some LT1's that ran VERY good stock and others that were total turds. It just depends on the car IMO and how its been taken care of. I havent really seen an LS1 that runs horrible like I see with LT1's (I think most of that is becasue they are newer and more expensive so hihg school kids cant get ahold of them)

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                • #9
                  LT1s degrade faster when they arent cared for - plain and simple. theres next to no maintenance on LS1 ignition.
                  -Joel
                  1995 Z28 M6 - AI226/234 - autocross ricer
                  1984 Scottsdale K10 - 305/4bbl/4spd


                  WTB List:Midwest Chasis DS Loop

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThreeHonks View Post
                    The LT1 may make more torque sooner on a dyno graph but I really dont think it is a big enough margin to make a difference compared to an LS1. Both are good motors, and yes, obviously as '02 WS6 would run away from a 94 Camaro Z28 (stock vs. stock).

                    I think on two very similar year cars (97 LT1 vs. 98 LS1) that it is a drivers race. I know some LT1's that ran VERY good stock and others that were total turds. It just depends on the car IMO and how its been taken care of. I havent really seen an LS1 that runs horrible like I see with LT1's (I think most of that is becasue they are newer and more expensive so hihg school kids cant get ahold of them)
                    I have to disagree with you on a few points Ryan, the LS1 cars are far enough ahead of any LT1 cars that no 98 vs 97 would or should be close. Also high school kids vary depending on where you live bu there were several kids at my school that could have easily afforded a 4th gen LS car. Its all about how they are cared for, I'm sure there are enough older people than own LTx cars that are lower than shit.
                    Doing less with more


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ThreeHonks View Post
                      (I think most of that is becasue they are newer and more expensive so hihg school kids cant get ahold of them)
                      Ahem.













                      Ok, so unlike every highschool kid I continually studied, worked, and did not piss my money away.

                      Used to own a Firebird.

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                      • #12
                        he was talking about the cars that are just abused and not taken care of. The kids that buy them that could care less about anything performance related other than doing a burnout to impress some freshman chick. And i agree with that. Yes, both LS1s and LT1s are available at a highschool price though.

                        Originally posted by DETROITMUSCLE View Post
                        I have to disagree with you on a few points Ryan, the LS1 cars are far enough ahead of any LT1 cars that no 98 vs 97 would or should be close.
                        97s were not a particularly fast year to my knowledge.

                        LS1 cars were far enough ahead to consistently win, but i wouldnt say they arent close. I killed several LS1 cars with just headers and a CAI - and i might add the CAI is still more restrictive than a lid.
                        -Joel
                        1995 Z28 M6 - AI226/234 - autocross ricer
                        1984 Scottsdale K10 - 305/4bbl/4spd


                        WTB List:Midwest Chasis DS Loop

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                        • #13
                          highschool kids back then may have, now they are lazy and dont have jobs. Not all, but a good portion. Also, we have a pretty decent school and we have one fbody in highschool parking

                          I think what you may have ment is that kids can afford the car(maybe today) but need it under parents name for insurance, ecspicalyl(sp) with TTops
                          1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 - 6 Speed

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                          • #14
                            LT1 and LS1 are very close in power. Maybe all the LS cars that I raced when I was stock/bolt ons were just all very poor drivers lol

                            I dont know why you guys think that an LS1 will wipe the pavement with an LT1 car?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JoeliusZ28 View Post
                              he was talking about the cars that are just abused and not taken care of. The kids that buy them that could care less about anything performance related other than doing a burnout to impress some freshman chick. And i agree with that. Yes, both LS1s and LT1s are available at a highschool price though.


                              97s were not a particularly fast year to my knowledge.

                              LS1 cars were far enough ahead to consistently win, but i wouldnt say they arent close. I killed several LS1 cars with just headers and a CAI - and i might add the CAI is still more restrictive than a lid.
                              LT1 cars are more often abused, Joel got it right. Just look how many even exist on this site anymore. I just said 97 becasue is was a newer year with OBD2.

                              EDIT: im done with this thread. Just realized I dont care whether a bolt on LS1 or bolt on LT1 is faster... you're still slow either way
                              Last edited by ThreeHonks; February 1st, 2010, 06:05 PM.

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