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Originally posted on Camaro5 - http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16793
Ok, 3 months and 10,500 miles on Number 3 and 1 month and 2,000 miles on Number 296. So what do I think of the 2010 Camaro?
Before I start, I will qualify my opinion by first openly and proudly stating that I am, as many of you know, a GM employee. I have a very big nickel in the success of this car and my company. So I have to leave it up to you regarding my honesty in the following view. Second, I have been able to spend quality time in the saddle of every GM car built in the last 25 years except for one, the all conquering Corvette ZR1. And finally, I don’t need to prove anything with my opinion. I don’t have to sell any magazines or advertising for those magazines so I’m not going to try to show you how smart I am by exaggerating my opinion one way or the other. Oh and I won’t show you a great smoking burnout either. Can’t ….. won’t, either way.
So let us start with the negatives. Is there anything about the 2010 Camaro that I absolutely don’t like, or that I hate or despise, and by that I mean is there anything that would negatively impact my purchase of the car? Simply….. no. There are only few things I don’t care for, but there isn’t anything about this car that I dislike that much or that is so poorly executed or looks or feels so cheap that I wouldn’t buy this car. For me there are no glaring flaws.
Now mind you my first impressions were very similar to many that you have posted.
-Wow does that car look smokin’ hot in red. I can’t believe I got a CTF Camaro.
-Holy cow I’ll never be able to pack that trunk with our luggage and two sets of golf clubs. I’ll be putting suit cases in the back seat.
-Boy the cowl is high. The visibility is really noticeable.
-Oh man, a hard plastic top pad on the Instrument Panel.
-What the heck are those big knobs with buttons below the radio?
So the first point, I think we almost all agree is FACT. This is a stunning car. I have already posted that no car I’ve driven, not the XLR or any year of Corvette (94 – 2009) or Camaro (1994 – 2002) has received this much attention from the public. If I had a nickel for every cell phone photo, thumbs up or weaving car suddenly slamming on the brakes for a closer look, I could buy both cars.
As for the trunk, well I posted the video. Yes, the opening could be more generous, but if you’ve ever worked on a decklid and how the hinges, latch and seals, oh and also the evil wiring are packaged you’d know that the car just couldn’t look the same. And you can pack it very well if you have smaller or soft luggage. No, you can’t pack a giant anything in the back of this car, but for two people we had more than enough room for the trip to California. And I haven’t had to pack anything with the rear seat folded down.
Visibility. That was the latest buzz out of the magazine reviews. Yep you get in the car after having driven any sedan or SUV and you’ll feel it right away. It’s different. You do have a big C-pillar and it can be tough if you are used to looking over your right shoulder for a lane change, I have to admit. The mirrors are great and help make up this. But I am stumped by anyone who claims you can’t see out the rear window using the rear view mirror. Maybe if you are short and cross-eyed it is hard, but it’s no different than many other cars in my opinion. The belt line seems high, but I can have the window open and rest my arm on the door comfortably while cruising. It’s shoulder high, but it’s comfortable. Mrs. Number 3 is only 5’ 2” and there is enough adjustment in the driver’s seat for her to get a comfortable position as well. And she doesn’t struggle with visibility like the magazine folks. So maybe that’s years of driving Corvettes, or that the magazine writers needed something to whine about. This is one that you’ll have judge for yourself, but I urge you not to go on you first instinct.
Oh boy, the Instrument Panel! What a flaming flame of hot flames that flamed up. Yes, the car has a hard plastic top pad on the IP. And so are the door trim pads. But you will only notice if you tap on it all the time. It looks fine, though. I can usually tell by just looking at an interior if it is using hard plastic. The Cobalt, to me, looks like it is hard plastic. The Camaro does not. But only you can decide if this is important to you. I am pretty picky on an interior. For me it is unique enough to be interesting. Do I wish it used better materials? Yes. Does it? No. But it isn’t something that would make me regret buying a Camaro. The overall interior styling is quite good in my opinion. And an observation from a few folks is that the Quad Gauge Pack really adds a finishing touch to the interior. I had a friend drive Number 3 home. His wife was so-so on the interior. He took another 2SS home and you would have thought he brought home a completely different car. She loved it. The only difference was the gauge pack. Also, I believe the ABL trim will add a bit of contrast and style as well above the base cloth trim that all the CTF 2LT and 2SS were built with. I did hear today, though, that at least some of the CTF cars with the up level interior are getting the door and IP trim replaced with ABL. Hoping Number 296 is on that list.
And although it hasn’t been mentioned much, I wasn’t too fond of the two big dials for the HVAC temperature and fan speed. Integrated into these dials are the function buttons for defrost, A/C, etc. I’ve since come to view them as part of the character of the interior. Someone told me they were styled to be reminiscent of a 1967 aftermarket A/C under dash unit. But an internet search came up with nothing and I’ve been unable to confirm this one way or the other.
Also, on the interior, I’ve stated that the Quad Gauge Pack make the interior more complete. But I also have to say that the small cubby on Number 3 is sure handy for sunglasses, iphone and simply having a place to put something you need access too.
So that’s it. Those are my quibbles. Some of you might think those are huge, others might think them not even worth mentioning. And I will say that of the hundreds of people that have looked at and sat in these cars not one has said, “oh I had one on order, but now that I see the interior or visibility or the wire hanging from the decklid I’m going to cancel it.” Not one item off of my list has been mentioned. Now the people that look at the car while I’m not there might say something like that, but I haven’t heard it.
Now for the good stuff. What really surprised me the most about the Camaro? First of all, the first car I drove was the 1LT we refer to as Number 3 (for the VIN). The V6 is absolutely a surprise and delight for me. To have a “base” car with that level of performance was a huge surprise. Go to a Cadillac dealer and drive a CTS with the OPTIONAL 3.6 SIDI motor and you’ll get an idea. Driving the SS is flat out exactly like you expect a 400 plus horsepower car to be with a GM small block V8. It is great, it pulls like a freight train and sounds wonderful. But that V6 is an absolute, jaw dropping surprise. I still switch back and forth with Mrs. Number 3 and her SS, and every time I drive the V6 I am still amazed.
The chassis in both cars is pretty darn good. The 1LT rides and handles with a smoothness that will make you think of a much more expensive car. Really!! On our trip to California, Number 3 was so smooth and quiet it may have become my all time favorite trip car. The SS on the other hand is, as you’d expect noticeably firmer. With the lower suspension and stiffer sidewalls on the 20’s, the ride is definitely stiffer, but still far from harsh. You are rewarded with much improved handling. The SS also has more tire noise than the 1LT, making it a bit worse on the highway than the 1LT. My only real complaint about the 1LT is I don’t particularly care for those wheels. They just don’t do it for me. So consider upgrading to the 19’s or even the RS package to get the 20’s. You’ll give up a bit of the smooth ride, but for me the appearance would be worth it.
I will also say that I really like the Brembo brakes that are standard on the SS, so much so that if I could, I would make them a stand-alone option on the LT. The brake pedal feel is firmer, and the stopping power is noticeably better. But that’s what you’re paying for.
The seats are different in the two cars we have. I really like the seats in the 1LT. These are probably the most comfortable seats I’ve been in on a long trip. We easily did 1,000 mile days in Number 3 on the trip to California and I never had a problem. The leather seats in the 2SS on the other hand are equally nice, but the cushion seems to be a bit narrower or the bolster is just a bit stiffer. Either way, my backside doesn’t fit the same as in the base seat. No knock on the leather seats, mind you, it’s just that the base seats are that good. Mrs. Number 3 prefers the leather seats, but she is quite a bit narrower than I am so it is understandable. Plus I know she really likes the heated seats that come with the 2LT/2SS leather seats.
Number 3 has the base radio, while the 2SS has the up-level system. I am not an audiophile and in fact Mrs. Number 3 would tell you I can’t hear a bit (sometimes) but I can tell there is a difference in the two systems. There is nothing special about the base radio. It has all of the adjustments you‘d expect, plays CDs nicely. It’s on par with any GM radio in my opinion. The up-level system, however, has a noticeably richer sound and much better base. In my opinion, it’s worth the extra money. Some of you may be able to build a better system on your own, but if installing speakers and subs isn’t in your tool box, just check the box on your order sheet. Also, if you like to use an ipod or iphone or MP3 player, pony up for the connectivity package if you can. First in the 1LT it gets you leather on the steering wheel and shift knob which is a huge upgrade and worth the money. But you have the ability to access your music using the radio and steering wheel controls. You have a USB port in the console so your device can be completely hidden away. It is pretty nice if you haven’t had the opportunity to try this feature.
Let’s see, what else? Back seats? I haven’t been there. I have had four people in the car for short drives, so you can do it. I’ve just had to move my seat a little forward of my normal position and that creates enough room for a rear seat passenger. Getting in to the back seat isn’t as easy as it could be. There is not “easy entry” feature like GM used to have on the old extended cab S-Truck years ago. But if you are at all concerned about ingress and egress from the rear seat, you probably shouldn’t be looking at a coupe any way. Just sayin’.
Fuel economy has been pretty good. I won’t give you my numbers as I’ve stated because I’d prefer not to have to justify them with my driving habits. But the MPG I’ve returned in both cars tells me you should have no problem hitting the EPA numbers if you keep you foot out of the right pedal and keep to the speed limit.
Let’s see what other things have been asked about? The sunroof, well that’s just a matter of choice. I like sunroofs and I don’t think twice about the fact that it opens over the roof instead of below it. Others have complained about the appearance. All I can say is that if you like sunroofs in your car you will like this one. Simple enough.
We have found a few other things that we’ve reported through the CTF system which is why we have them before you guys can get them. I won’t give you the list because I am confident you won’t see any of them. I know a lot of people in the U.S., Canada and Australia that are working a ton of hours right now to address any issue and get those cars ready. They just aren’t going to ship one Camaro until they are satisfied that you will be satisfied. And it is any day now literally. So, soon………very soon.
I am sorry, this isn’t a technical review. No 0 – 60 times, although I am surprised no one took a stop watch to the two videos I posted. No braking distance or skid pad numbers. It’s just really about what you will all end up buying this car for anyway. Did you ever really fall in love with a car because it could do 0 – 60 in 4.2 seconds instead of 4.5? I doubt it. And for those that it matters, you’ll mod the you-know-what out it anyway to personalize your Camaro and get 4.2. I have fallen for this car, and in a big way. It has brought very nearly the performance level of a Corvette in a package that is stylish, comfortable and roomy for about 10 grand less if you load it up. For me it does about 9/10s of what a Corvette does for me and I’ve come to realize I’ll never drive a Corvette 10/10s on a track let alone the street. This car suits me, it fits me and I will really be sad when we have to give these two cars back to General Motors. Yes I loved the Corvettes I’ve driven too, but part of that was I could point to the parts my team engineered. On the Camaro, that is not the case. So what I feel about this car is just coming from my love of cars. And this 2010 Camaro has just really ignited all of the things I enjoy about cars. I hope it does for you too.
Ok, 3 months and 10,500 miles on Number 3 and 1 month and 2,000 miles on Number 296. So what do I think of the 2010 Camaro?
Before I start, I will qualify my opinion by first openly and proudly stating that I am, as many of you know, a GM employee. I have a very big nickel in the success of this car and my company. So I have to leave it up to you regarding my honesty in the following view. Second, I have been able to spend quality time in the saddle of every GM car built in the last 25 years except for one, the all conquering Corvette ZR1. And finally, I don’t need to prove anything with my opinion. I don’t have to sell any magazines or advertising for those magazines so I’m not going to try to show you how smart I am by exaggerating my opinion one way or the other. Oh and I won’t show you a great smoking burnout either. Can’t ….. won’t, either way.
So let us start with the negatives. Is there anything about the 2010 Camaro that I absolutely don’t like, or that I hate or despise, and by that I mean is there anything that would negatively impact my purchase of the car? Simply….. no. There are only few things I don’t care for, but there isn’t anything about this car that I dislike that much or that is so poorly executed or looks or feels so cheap that I wouldn’t buy this car. For me there are no glaring flaws.
Now mind you my first impressions were very similar to many that you have posted.
-Wow does that car look smokin’ hot in red. I can’t believe I got a CTF Camaro.
-Holy cow I’ll never be able to pack that trunk with our luggage and two sets of golf clubs. I’ll be putting suit cases in the back seat.
-Boy the cowl is high. The visibility is really noticeable.
-Oh man, a hard plastic top pad on the Instrument Panel.
-What the heck are those big knobs with buttons below the radio?
So the first point, I think we almost all agree is FACT. This is a stunning car. I have already posted that no car I’ve driven, not the XLR or any year of Corvette (94 – 2009) or Camaro (1994 – 2002) has received this much attention from the public. If I had a nickel for every cell phone photo, thumbs up or weaving car suddenly slamming on the brakes for a closer look, I could buy both cars.
As for the trunk, well I posted the video. Yes, the opening could be more generous, but if you’ve ever worked on a decklid and how the hinges, latch and seals, oh and also the evil wiring are packaged you’d know that the car just couldn’t look the same. And you can pack it very well if you have smaller or soft luggage. No, you can’t pack a giant anything in the back of this car, but for two people we had more than enough room for the trip to California. And I haven’t had to pack anything with the rear seat folded down.
Visibility. That was the latest buzz out of the magazine reviews. Yep you get in the car after having driven any sedan or SUV and you’ll feel it right away. It’s different. You do have a big C-pillar and it can be tough if you are used to looking over your right shoulder for a lane change, I have to admit. The mirrors are great and help make up this. But I am stumped by anyone who claims you can’t see out the rear window using the rear view mirror. Maybe if you are short and cross-eyed it is hard, but it’s no different than many other cars in my opinion. The belt line seems high, but I can have the window open and rest my arm on the door comfortably while cruising. It’s shoulder high, but it’s comfortable. Mrs. Number 3 is only 5’ 2” and there is enough adjustment in the driver’s seat for her to get a comfortable position as well. And she doesn’t struggle with visibility like the magazine folks. So maybe that’s years of driving Corvettes, or that the magazine writers needed something to whine about. This is one that you’ll have judge for yourself, but I urge you not to go on you first instinct.
Oh boy, the Instrument Panel! What a flaming flame of hot flames that flamed up. Yes, the car has a hard plastic top pad on the IP. And so are the door trim pads. But you will only notice if you tap on it all the time. It looks fine, though. I can usually tell by just looking at an interior if it is using hard plastic. The Cobalt, to me, looks like it is hard plastic. The Camaro does not. But only you can decide if this is important to you. I am pretty picky on an interior. For me it is unique enough to be interesting. Do I wish it used better materials? Yes. Does it? No. But it isn’t something that would make me regret buying a Camaro. The overall interior styling is quite good in my opinion. And an observation from a few folks is that the Quad Gauge Pack really adds a finishing touch to the interior. I had a friend drive Number 3 home. His wife was so-so on the interior. He took another 2SS home and you would have thought he brought home a completely different car. She loved it. The only difference was the gauge pack. Also, I believe the ABL trim will add a bit of contrast and style as well above the base cloth trim that all the CTF 2LT and 2SS were built with. I did hear today, though, that at least some of the CTF cars with the up level interior are getting the door and IP trim replaced with ABL. Hoping Number 296 is on that list.
And although it hasn’t been mentioned much, I wasn’t too fond of the two big dials for the HVAC temperature and fan speed. Integrated into these dials are the function buttons for defrost, A/C, etc. I’ve since come to view them as part of the character of the interior. Someone told me they were styled to be reminiscent of a 1967 aftermarket A/C under dash unit. But an internet search came up with nothing and I’ve been unable to confirm this one way or the other.
Also, on the interior, I’ve stated that the Quad Gauge Pack make the interior more complete. But I also have to say that the small cubby on Number 3 is sure handy for sunglasses, iphone and simply having a place to put something you need access too.
So that’s it. Those are my quibbles. Some of you might think those are huge, others might think them not even worth mentioning. And I will say that of the hundreds of people that have looked at and sat in these cars not one has said, “oh I had one on order, but now that I see the interior or visibility or the wire hanging from the decklid I’m going to cancel it.” Not one item off of my list has been mentioned. Now the people that look at the car while I’m not there might say something like that, but I haven’t heard it.
Now for the good stuff. What really surprised me the most about the Camaro? First of all, the first car I drove was the 1LT we refer to as Number 3 (for the VIN). The V6 is absolutely a surprise and delight for me. To have a “base” car with that level of performance was a huge surprise. Go to a Cadillac dealer and drive a CTS with the OPTIONAL 3.6 SIDI motor and you’ll get an idea. Driving the SS is flat out exactly like you expect a 400 plus horsepower car to be with a GM small block V8. It is great, it pulls like a freight train and sounds wonderful. But that V6 is an absolute, jaw dropping surprise. I still switch back and forth with Mrs. Number 3 and her SS, and every time I drive the V6 I am still amazed.
The chassis in both cars is pretty darn good. The 1LT rides and handles with a smoothness that will make you think of a much more expensive car. Really!! On our trip to California, Number 3 was so smooth and quiet it may have become my all time favorite trip car. The SS on the other hand is, as you’d expect noticeably firmer. With the lower suspension and stiffer sidewalls on the 20’s, the ride is definitely stiffer, but still far from harsh. You are rewarded with much improved handling. The SS also has more tire noise than the 1LT, making it a bit worse on the highway than the 1LT. My only real complaint about the 1LT is I don’t particularly care for those wheels. They just don’t do it for me. So consider upgrading to the 19’s or even the RS package to get the 20’s. You’ll give up a bit of the smooth ride, but for me the appearance would be worth it.
I will also say that I really like the Brembo brakes that are standard on the SS, so much so that if I could, I would make them a stand-alone option on the LT. The brake pedal feel is firmer, and the stopping power is noticeably better. But that’s what you’re paying for.
The seats are different in the two cars we have. I really like the seats in the 1LT. These are probably the most comfortable seats I’ve been in on a long trip. We easily did 1,000 mile days in Number 3 on the trip to California and I never had a problem. The leather seats in the 2SS on the other hand are equally nice, but the cushion seems to be a bit narrower or the bolster is just a bit stiffer. Either way, my backside doesn’t fit the same as in the base seat. No knock on the leather seats, mind you, it’s just that the base seats are that good. Mrs. Number 3 prefers the leather seats, but she is quite a bit narrower than I am so it is understandable. Plus I know she really likes the heated seats that come with the 2LT/2SS leather seats.
Number 3 has the base radio, while the 2SS has the up-level system. I am not an audiophile and in fact Mrs. Number 3 would tell you I can’t hear a bit (sometimes) but I can tell there is a difference in the two systems. There is nothing special about the base radio. It has all of the adjustments you‘d expect, plays CDs nicely. It’s on par with any GM radio in my opinion. The up-level system, however, has a noticeably richer sound and much better base. In my opinion, it’s worth the extra money. Some of you may be able to build a better system on your own, but if installing speakers and subs isn’t in your tool box, just check the box on your order sheet. Also, if you like to use an ipod or iphone or MP3 player, pony up for the connectivity package if you can. First in the 1LT it gets you leather on the steering wheel and shift knob which is a huge upgrade and worth the money. But you have the ability to access your music using the radio and steering wheel controls. You have a USB port in the console so your device can be completely hidden away. It is pretty nice if you haven’t had the opportunity to try this feature.
Let’s see, what else? Back seats? I haven’t been there. I have had four people in the car for short drives, so you can do it. I’ve just had to move my seat a little forward of my normal position and that creates enough room for a rear seat passenger. Getting in to the back seat isn’t as easy as it could be. There is not “easy entry” feature like GM used to have on the old extended cab S-Truck years ago. But if you are at all concerned about ingress and egress from the rear seat, you probably shouldn’t be looking at a coupe any way. Just sayin’.
Fuel economy has been pretty good. I won’t give you my numbers as I’ve stated because I’d prefer not to have to justify them with my driving habits. But the MPG I’ve returned in both cars tells me you should have no problem hitting the EPA numbers if you keep you foot out of the right pedal and keep to the speed limit.
Let’s see what other things have been asked about? The sunroof, well that’s just a matter of choice. I like sunroofs and I don’t think twice about the fact that it opens over the roof instead of below it. Others have complained about the appearance. All I can say is that if you like sunroofs in your car you will like this one. Simple enough.
We have found a few other things that we’ve reported through the CTF system which is why we have them before you guys can get them. I won’t give you the list because I am confident you won’t see any of them. I know a lot of people in the U.S., Canada and Australia that are working a ton of hours right now to address any issue and get those cars ready. They just aren’t going to ship one Camaro until they are satisfied that you will be satisfied. And it is any day now literally. So, soon………very soon.
I am sorry, this isn’t a technical review. No 0 – 60 times, although I am surprised no one took a stop watch to the two videos I posted. No braking distance or skid pad numbers. It’s just really about what you will all end up buying this car for anyway. Did you ever really fall in love with a car because it could do 0 – 60 in 4.2 seconds instead of 4.5? I doubt it. And for those that it matters, you’ll mod the you-know-what out it anyway to personalize your Camaro and get 4.2. I have fallen for this car, and in a big way. It has brought very nearly the performance level of a Corvette in a package that is stylish, comfortable and roomy for about 10 grand less if you load it up. For me it does about 9/10s of what a Corvette does for me and I’ve come to realize I’ll never drive a Corvette 10/10s on a track let alone the street. This car suits me, it fits me and I will really be sad when we have to give these two cars back to General Motors. Yes I loved the Corvettes I’ve driven too, but part of that was I could point to the parts my team engineered. On the Camaro, that is not the case. So what I feel about this car is just coming from my love of cars. And this 2010 Camaro has just really ignited all of the things I enjoy about cars. I hope it does for you too.
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