hotchkis vs edelbrock

[shiftinda93z]

2005-2006 and soon to be the 2007 SVSU FSAE car, features structural motor, bolt together chassis construction. Can be seen here:

http://www.svsu.edu/clubs/fsae/pictures/index.html

Look closely at pics, the chassis bolts together around the motor, creating a hybrid chassis. 8, 5/16" bolts hold the rear to the front. These bolts have not slopped out in 2 years+ testing under crazy conditions(i.e. I put the car on 2 wheels, and slammed it back to the ground).

Moral of the story, bolt in SFC are what I will be going with. They will hold. And if you would like, after you get them positioned the way you want them, then you can weld for additional strength. That is my plan

[WMCCjames]

My reply to this argument..if bolt in was so bad why is your engine and suspension and most of the parts on the car bolted on?!?!

Bolt on's are fine when they are new...but then the bolt streches and the holes elongate and then they are just dead weight. Only way to do it is weld them in....no chance they can work loose.

The reason other components can be safely bolted on like engines and suspension parts is because they are not subject to exteme high torsional loads. Suspension parts where bolted are only subject to rotational and limited lateral loads....not to mention, they must be allowed to move. You will never find a frame or chassis that bolts togther for these reasons. The chassis has to remain as stiff as possible in order for the set-up to be tuned in a predictable mannor. As soon as you introduce twist and flex into a platform you can no longer tune it in a predictable, repeatable mannor. There are, of coarse, exceptions to this rule...however it does not apply to vehicles such as ours.

[archemedes]

So, first they were for looks, then they are barely better than none because the bolt holes will stretch, and now the bolts stretch? Just making sure I follow this.

2 inches difference in what? if that's the case he made more power than any SFC's are going to hold and should have a full cage to stiffen the car anyway. So right there he was playing with fire.

I mean my god, 90% of the car is bolted together. Plus, the holes that you are talking about are not in 0.030" thick sheet metal, the subframing that you bolt the SFC's to is much thicker. Yes, welded are better, because it makes them more rigid to the frame, but bolt ons work well too.

that sheet metal isn't that thick (ever have to replace part of one that tore?) bolt in connectors make people who do a few mods think they have something. there was 2 inches difference in fender height, a set of homemade connectors and it didn't twist again (of course who mkakes their own parts for a 4th gen when slp can ship it to you nice and shiny)

[GETGONE]

The UMI's bolt to the lower control arm bracket in the rear, and they have a nice thick metal plate that goes into the front drop down of the front subframe and the 3rd point bolts to the location where the stock tunnel brace bolts. It's not just flimsy metal there. How are they getting 2" difference in fender height? Guys on LS1tech say 4th gens don't even need SFC's because they are stiffer than the 3rd gens were. Sam Strano races his car and doesn't have SFC's because if he did it would bump him up into a higher class.

[MORNINGSTAR2101]

haha, mine will definitely be welded on, thanks

[WMCC Gary]

Its all a matter of preference. I myself will have mine WELDED in.

[WMCCjames]

Its all a matter of preference. I myself will have mine WELDED in.

It's not a matter of preference Gary, it comes down to which one is better. Welding them in is the better option. There is no arguement for bolt on SFC's being better than welded in ones....again, on the platform we are discussing. This is of coarse, unless you like hauling around 50 lbs of dead weight after your bolts have streched and the holes have elongated. I understand the need for bolt in units, some people don't have access to a welder and don't want to pay someone to weld them in.

[MrMojoRisin681]

It's not a matter of preference Gary, it comes down to which one is better. Welding them in is the better option. There is no arguement for bolt on SFC's being better than welded in ones....again, on the platform we are discussing. This is of coarse, unless you like hauling around 50 lbs of dead weight after your bolts have streched and the holes have elongated. I understand the need for bolt in units, some people don't have access to a welder and don't want to pay someone to weld them in.

"Competition Engineering's Weld-on SFC's require you to move the springs inboard--you must modify or fabricate rear frame rails or get CE's formed rear frame rail. The Bolt-on SFC's fit with no modifying." - Ad in Summit.

Alright alot of 2nd gen bird owners seem to get the Bolt-on SFC'c and then weld them on. By doing this are they just as strong as the Weld-on ones? The Bolt-ons cost alittle more, but don't require the modifying like the weld-ons.

[WMCCjames]

I think those are two different applications...I don't know anything about 2nd gens and their structure though.

[MrMojoRisin681]

I think those are two different applications...I don't know anything about 2nd gens and their structure though.

It says the same thing about their weld-on SFC's for 3rd gens. It's the same application, just one is a Weld-on version and the other is a Bolt-on.

[WMCCjames]

No, I'm talking about the "moving the spring inboard" thing.

Yes, you can always weld in bolt on units......most of the thirdgen SFC's I have seen all have holes in them to be bolted on even when you buy the "weld in ones" They just ship them to you without bolts.

[GETGONE]

All of UMI's bolt in SFC's are advertised as being able to be welded in as well. I need to check with them if they're at M11 tomorrow to see how to weld the rear mount brackets on.

[archemedes]

The UMI's bolt to the lower control arm bracket in the rear, and they have a nice thick metal plate that goes into the front drop down of the front subframe and the 3rd point bolts to the location where the stock tunnel brace bolts. It's not just flimsy metal there. How are they getting 2" difference in fender height? Guys on LS1tech say 4th gens don't even need SFC's because they are stiffer than the 3rd gens were. Sam Strano races his car and doesn't have SFC's because if he did it would bump him up into a higher class.

All unibody cars need connectors, the difference was measure height of fender lip before run, then after run. If it's a t top car you can crack the paint if you have enough power. Bolts are not strong enough for the forces being applied. What class is he running in that doesn't allow sub frame connectors? they are almost a safety item (the twist can change suspension geometry and all kinds of things)