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PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! starter issue!

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  • PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! starter issue!

    Alright, im just going to copy and paste from my post on nastyz28, hopefully someone here can help me out, I need a solution!!!

    Alright,

    Obviously something is wrong and before I burn out a starter or ruin my battery I figured I would ask. Feels like we have done everything however every time we go to hook up the battery, the starter engages. It doesn't try to start the car but turns on and spins and spins. Ignition is off and key out of car.

    Engine is a 350 in a '76 Type Lt w/ AC, starter is the '98 Chevy Silvarado mini high-torque style.

    4 wires, 4 studs on the cylinoids. Tried to hook it up like my dads '73 Z (which has the large style starter) with the battery wire and one smaller wire on the top, a smaller wire on the engine block side smaller stud and the bottom stud went directly to the lower portion of the starter. Connected battery and it engaged.

    Thought maybe the smaller wire on the battery stud on top should have gone on the bottom stud. Switched them and had the same issue.

    Thought maybe the battery would go on top, smaller on the side, and the other smaller on the extra smaller stud. (this I have not tried) But one of the smaller wires has a connector on the end to fit a larger style stud not smaller style.

    We checked the distributer wiring against Dad's car also and that was the same.

    WHAT GIVES?!?!?! Suggestions, answers, people with the same issue?

    Please please please HELP!

    Thanks!







    (slowcar response)
    not a solution just an idea. or you have three wires one is battery power other is main power to wire hanes red. other wire is power from key pink.
    red wire goes with battery power on large termanal . the one with out the wire giong into the starter body. the pink wire goes to the small termenal with the s next to it.





    So I flipped the cilynoid 180* and hooked it up the same way stated above from slowcar, (battery wire and other wire on large terminal outer, ignition wire on the "S" smaller stud, and the lower larger stud going into the starter itself) and had power but go to turn the key, nothing there. This also made the cilynoid get burning hot also. Let it cool and moved the ignition wire over to the "R" and had the same issue, turn key and nothing there. I have power to everything but the car wont engage the starter. So I moved the ignition wire back to where it should be and just have the battery disconnected currently.

    I also checked the fuses and all of the fuses are good. Where it says "ING" however there is just a wire that comes out to what looks like could be a relay?

    Talking to dad he suggested to help narrow it down hook up the battery again and see if the cylinoid gets hot again. If it does, take the battery off and let it cool, then disconnect the ignition wire and hook the batter back up to see if it still gets hot to narrow down if its an ignition problem drawing constant juice or the starter itself.

    Any other ideas on what it could be or to help narrow things down?
    Kyle
    '06 Cobalt SS
    '11 Jeep Patriot Latitude
    '76 Camaro Type Lt - Sold

  • #2
    Do you know if start solenoid is good or not. there should only be 2 wires to connect. 1 large red which is 12 v plus goes right to battery. 1 smaller wire that comes from ignition key and goes on small terminal. If you have a volt meter measure the voltage to the small wire. with key on zero volts with key in start position 12 volts.
    If thats ok then connect the large red but not the small wire. if starter spins then start solenoid is bad.
    sigpic
    1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.

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    • #3
      I Actually had put a whole new solenoid on it and that was no help and found out the starter itself has a bad ground. Carl brought I've 2 new starters, a EMS global mini high torque and a standard starter. Dad and I are confused by everything bc the mini I took out that's bad has 11 teeth on the gear but both new starters and the starter dad has out of the car have 9 teeth. I went ahead and put the new ems starter In and hooked all up and now when you hit the ignition it just clicks loud twice and then nothing. Brand new battery but I went ahead and connected the 12 volt charger to it... Same thing... Put the charger on engine start mode... Same thing... What gives? I have a 3 wire style and we know it has been wired up correctly at the starter itself. Power from battery and power to wire harness on large stud and ignition wire on smaller stud with the "s". Then the last lead goes into the starter itself.

      Any ideas?
      Kyle
      '06 Cobalt SS
      '11 Jeep Patriot Latitude
      '76 Camaro Type Lt - Sold

      Comment


      • #4
        Hard to tell w/o pictures

        153 or 168 tooth flywheel?

        1998 Camaro Z28 - Bright Red, 6.0 TR224, 4l60e, 3.42 Eaton TrueTrac
        1989 Camaro IROC-Z Convertible - 355 big tube TPI, WC T5, 3.42 Zexel Torsen, CTS-V/C4 brakes
        1955 Bel Air 2 Door Post - 357 TPI, Muncie M20, 4 wheel disc

        2006 Saab 9-7x 5.3i Daily Driver

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        • #5
          From what we know it's a 168 tooth. The starter I'm using says it's compatible with a 153 or 168 though
          Kyle
          '06 Cobalt SS
          '11 Jeep Patriot Latitude
          '76 Camaro Type Lt - Sold

          Comment


          • #6
            From what we know it's a 168 tooth. The starter I'm using says it's compatible with a 153 or 168 though
            Kyle
            '06 Cobalt SS
            '11 Jeep Patriot Latitude
            '76 Camaro Type Lt - Sold

            Comment


            • #7
              To use the starter on the 168 tooth you need to shim the starter for the teeth to mess properly. Its hard to see but when the gear is out there should be a paper clip clearance between the tooth top and bottom of tooth in flywheel.
              sigpic
              1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.

              Comment


              • #8
                Finally... all is figured out...

                Apparently there is a difference in the rear of starters for an auto and a manual. We had 3 spare starters all that evidently are for automatics and when we pulled dads engine this weekend, pulled the starter off and much to his surprise (got a kick out of him thinking I was the crazy one), the tail is completely different. His had a duralast part number on it, went down to autozone and picked up that model, bolted right in, and turns over just fine now.

                My mini starter had a short in it as well as a bad silinoid... All is good in the neighborhood now..... THANK GOD! will be running the cam break in tomorrow
                Kyle
                '06 Cobalt SS
                '11 Jeep Patriot Latitude
                '76 Camaro Type Lt - Sold

                Comment


                • #9
                  Glad you got it figured out Kyle.
                  sigpic
                  1998 Trans Am Convertible A4 - WS6 hood, WS6 air lid, WS6 rims, drilled/slotted rotors.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Congrats on finding the fix, Kyle!
                    - Brian Meissen
                    Owner, MiFBody.com
                    Administrator, LTxTech.com


                    1994 Camaro LT1 Transplant - 357ci LT1, cammed, stalled, and driven.
                    2022 Camaro LT1 - "Cherry Bomb 2"
                    Michigan FBody Meet & Greet Car Show 2022
                    June 4th, 2022 - 9am to 3pm!!!
                    The HUB Stadium, Auburn Hills, MI

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                    • #11
                      Glad you got it fixed.

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                      • #12
                        Well lets see .... I've owned 2nd gen camaro's for 30 years and i didn't know there was a differance between an Auto and Manual Trans starter .... yep I thought he was crazy lol
                        '73 Z28 388 Stroker, M22 Rockcrusher 4 speed
                        WMCC Photographer and owner of Redline Photography
                        You are only young once but you can be immature your whole life!!!
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