Drivetrain swap or Back End swap...

[LSxDreamer]

(I guess this is the best place to put it, if you got a better place let me know.)

Here's my parts list:
2001 Camaro SS 62K miles: Hit hard in the rear
1994 Camaro Z28 Rolling Shell: Spotless, no rust, and the body parts are good

Ok well I've got two questions:

Question One:
Is a weekend a realistic time frame to do a LS1 Swap into the 94. I have great mechanical skills and I have all the tools I think I would need and have acess to a lift, engine hoist, and engine stand...

OR

Question Two:
Being that my best friend owns a body shop, should I just cut the back half off the SS and replace it with the back half of the 94...

All of your input would be greatly appreciated. Also I did search but didn't quit get the info I was looking for.

David

[csmith4153]

If it was me,
I would put the LS1 in the 94. Stay away from "fixing" cars that have been hit hard. I would like to put a LSX and 6 speed into my 94 V6 one day.

[JoeliusZ28]

i vote LS1 swap. you could always make a clone SS out of the Z28 with a simple front end swap.

unfortunately thats another SS to the graveyard.

[JAdair]

Yea i would go with the swap

[phoenix_rising]

Keep in mind, if you switch enough parts to be considered original you can swap the vins. I think that if you were to swap the front end, suspension, drivetrain, brakes, interior, body panels, etc. You could apply to the state to have a legit 02 SS!

[ITSSLOW]

I've HEARD horror stories with fixing wrecks. Although my sonoma went through a huge wreck and so did that mustang I had and you couldnt tell with either one. My vote however goes to LS1 swap into the 94. After you are done with that put the SS front clip on it.

[kammi10]

i say just swpa the drivetrain and make it a 93-97 style ss and sell all the rest if the parts off the 02 u can

[WMCCjames]

Swap it...you could do it in a weekend if your good.

[David Conwill]

Keep in mind, if you switch enough parts to be considered original you can swap the vins. I think that if you were to swap the front end, suspension, drivetrain, brakes, interior, body panels, etc. You could apply to the state to have a legit 02 SS!

I would be real leary about swapping VINs. I'm not sure about the specific laws in Michigan, but in some states that's fraud. If you've removed the VIN tag for any reason, you have to actually apply for a new VIN with the state. But like I said, I don't know Michigan's applicable laws or whether you're ever planning to move.

-Dave

[Formula Z]

i think a weekend is pushing it, i dont care how good you are

[WMCC Gary]

Keep in mind, if you switch enough parts to be considered original you can swap the vins. I think that if you were to swap the front end, suspension, drivetrain, brakes, interior, body panels, etc. You could apply to the state to have a legit 02 SS!

Sorry Ben but that is illegal.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.415 Concealing or misrepresenting identity of motor vehicle or mechanical device as misdemeanor or felony; evidence of violation; confiscation; sale at public auction; revocation of dealer's license; vehicle identification plate and applicable labels; motor vehicle or part with identification number removed.

Sec. 415.
(1) A person who, without the intent to mislead another as to the identity of the vehicle, conceals or misrepresents the identity of a motor vehicle or of a mechanical device by removing or defacing the manufacturer's serial number or the engine or motor number on the motor vehicle, or by replacing a part of the motor vehicle or mechanical device bearing the serial number or engine or motor number of the vehicle with a new part upon which the proper serial number or engine or motor number has not been stamped, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(2) A person who, with the intent to mislead another as to the identity of a vehicle, conceals or misrepresents the identity of a motor vehicle or of a mechanical device by removing or defacing the manufacturer's serial number or the engine or motor number on the motor vehicle, or by replacing a part of the motor vehicle or mechanical device bearing the serial number or engine or motor number of the vehicle with a new part upon which the proper serial number or engine or motor number has not been stamped, is guilty of a felony, and if the person is a licensed dealer, the dealer's license shall be revoked.
(3) In all prosecutions under this section, possession by a person of a motor vehicle or of a mechanical device with the manufacturer's serial number or the engine or motor number removed, defaced, destroyed or altered or with a part bearing the number or numbers replaced by one on which the proper number does not appear, shall be prima facie evidence of violation of this section.
(4) If the identification of a motor vehicle or a mechanical device has been removed, defaced, or altered as provided in this section and the real identity of the motor vehicle or mechanical device cannot be determined, the motor vehicle or mechanical device shall be subject to confiscation by the state and shall be sold at public auction, put to official use by the government agency seizing the vehicle, or rendered scrap. If the items are confiscated from a licensed vehicle dealer, the dealer's license shall be revoked.
(5) A person shall not knowingly possess, buy, deliver, or offer to buy, sell, exchange, or give away any manufacturer's vehicle identification number plate, federal safety certification label, antitheft label, posident die stamps, secretary of state vehicle identification label, rosette rivet, or any facsimile thereof. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle manufacturer, a motor vehicle parts supplier under contract with a motor vehicle manufacturer, or a law enforcement officer in the official performance of his or her duties or to a motor vehicle in which a manufacturer's vehicle identification plate and each of the applicable labels listed in this subsection have been installed as prescribed by law. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years, a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both. If the person who violates this subsection is a licensed dealer or repair facility, its license shall be revoked.
(6) A person shall not buy, receive, or obtain control of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with the intent to sell or otherwise dispose of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle part knowing that an identification number of that motor vehicle or motor vehicle part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle obtained from or at the direction of a law enforcement agency. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years, a fine of not more than $20,000.00, or both.
(7) As used in this section:
(a) “Antitheft label” means a label containing the vehicle identification number affixed to a motor vehicle by the manufacturer in accordance with subtitle VI of title 49 of the United States Code, 49 U.S.C. 30101 to 33118.
(b) “Federal safety certification label” means a label affixed to a motor vehicle that certifies that the motor vehicle conforms to current safety standards at the time of production and displays the vehicle identification number.
(c) “Motor vehicle” means a device in, upon, or by which a person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a street, highway, or waterway, whether subject to or exempt from registration, except a device exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.
(d) “Posident die stamps” means specially designed die stamps used by motor vehicle manufacturers to produce unique letters and numbers when stamping vehicle identification numbers upon vehicle identification plates, tags, and parts affixed to a motor vehicle.
(e) “Rosette rivet” means a special rivet designed to prevent removal or tampering with a vehicle identification number plate affixed by the manufacturer to a motor vehicle and that, when used to affix a vehicle identification number plate, forms 5 or 6 petals at the rivet head.

History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- CL 1948, 750.415 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 494, Eff. Dec. 13, 1978 ;-- Am. 2000, Act 217, Eff. Oct. 1, 2000

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.536a Rendering goods or property unidentifiable; possession or sale of goods or property with identifying number obscured, defaced, altered, obliterated, removed, destroyed, or otherwise concealed or disguised.

Sec. 536a.
(1) A person who obscures, defaces, alters, obliterates, removes, destroys, or otherwise conceals or disguises any registration, serial, or other identifying number embossed, engraved, carved, stamped, welded, or otherwise placed or situated in or upon goods or property held for sale in the ordinary course of business with the intent to render the goods or property unidentifiable shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(2) A person who is a dealer in or collector of any merchandise or personal property or the agent, employee, or representative of a dealer or collector and who possesses goods or property with the intent to sell the goods or property in the ordinary course of business knowing the registration, serial, or other identifying number has been obscured, defaced, altered, obliterated, removed, destroyed, or otherwise concealed or disguised shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(3) A person who is a dealer or collector of any merchandise or personal property or the agent, employee, or representative of a dealer or collector and who sells goods or property in the ordinary course of business knowing that the registration, serial, or other identifying number has been obscured, defaced, altered, obliterated, removed, destroyed, or otherwise concealed or disguised shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Selling, possessing vehicles, parts without I.D. numbers may violate law Dealers should be cautious when dealing with vehicles or vehicle parts that have no identification numbers or which have numbers that have been removed, altered, hidden, destroyed or disguised.

A vehicle or vehicle part that has a number obscured, defaced, altered, etc., should NOT be sold or offered for sale in that condition. The vehicle or part must have a replacement identification number applied either by law enforcement or the Department of State.

In fact, simply possessing a vehicle or part without its proper manufacturer’s serial number or the engine or motor number is prima facie evidence of a violation of the law. And, law enforcement may confiscate
the vehicle or part if it cannot be properly identified. If vehicles or vehicle parts are confiscated from a licensed vehicle dealer, the dealer’s license is subject to suspension or revocation.

No dealer, auction, broker or salvage pool should ever sell a vehicle or part that does not have a proper identification number. The law prohibits the removal of any identifying number on a vehicle or part. Dealers and repair facilities who repair, rebuild or reconstruct (assemble) vehicles must be careful to:
1. Leave all existing (original and replacement) numbers on the vehicle and
on all parts.

2. Not remove, paint over, scratch out, destroy, obliterate, etc., any original or replacement numbers that appear on any vehicle or part of the vehicle.

3. Leave the original VIN on each cab when replacing a truck cab. Do not
remove the VIN from the damaged cab and place it on the replacement cab. If the replacement cab is new without a VIN, the owner of the vehicle must apply for a “replacement” VIN number through the Department of State.

If the cab replacement is a used cab with its original VIN, leave the number on the part. The repaired truck will carry a different VIN than the one appearing on its title and registration.

Also, if the truck being repaired qualifies as a late model distressed vehicle (damaged more than 75 percent, but less than 91 percent of its actual value), it must have a salvage title and be inspected and recertified
before it can be driven. The new title will show the vehicle is a “previously
issued salvage title” (rebuilt) vehicle and should alert law enforcement to expect different numbers.

If the damage is more than 91 percent, a scrap title must be obtained and the truck cannot be rebuilt. If the vehicle needing a new cab does not qualify as a late model distressed vehicle, the vehicle’s original title need not be changed.

“Late model” is defined as a vehicle weighing 8,000 pounds or less, manufactured in the current model year or the five model years immediately preceding the current model year, or, if over 8,000 pounds, a vehicle manufactured in the current model year or the 15 model years immediately
preceding the current model year.

[JoeliusZ28]

werent people doing that with that 67 pace car someone posted a while back? It was about 10% of a car with a vin tag going for 16 grand or something like that. not saying i support it, but i thought it could be done.

[David Conwill]

Joel, I think the way that works is that you use a better, but less desireable, vehicle as a parts donor for a mostly-gone vehicle. From a purely technical standpoint it's probably the same as drilling out and switching the VIN tags, but it seems as though as long as you don't touch those sacred rivets "The Man" won't bother you.

Of course, that all depends on the character of your local prosecutor.

A similar argument is often made with early Ford guys.

"Yeah, I've got a real, steel Henry Ford Deuce, man. I had to replace everything but the cowl top with reproduction sheetmetal, but it's still the real thing because of what I started with."

Sure it is.

-Dave

[WMCC Gary]

Very good example David.

[JoeliusZ28]

i know theres that, i was talking the legal aspect of it. i dont think even the cowl would have been saveable on that 67... plus the ebay auction had pictures of the tag already removed.