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  • Clutch System Woes - advice please!

    Looking for some advice from some of you more experienced with this.

    Background - picked up my SS last June with 66k miles on it. Car is now just shy of 70k miles. I am fairly certain the entire system is stock. Last summer, I had a handful of incidents where I was either locked out or ground a gear at high RPM shifts. I think I had a low clutch pedal a few times too, but it was nothing to drastic - just attributed it to the standard LS1/T56 problems. Over the winter, I bled the system with a powerbleeder @ 15psi. Fluid was very dirty - lots of grit in it. Car seemed just fine for the first couple of drives this year, but a couple of times I did grind a gear, which is kind of odd for me. Friday morning, I left home and the pedal seemed to be engaging right off the floor and it was shifting kinda finicky. After a couple of miles, it seemed better. I started to notice that when I was using the clutch a lot, like in traffic, the problem would get worse. Anyway, made the 16 mile drive into work OK. Took it out for lunch and it was flawless. Felt great, even with me beating on it a bit. Left work and was about 8 miles into my drive, and my pedal went to the floor. I can occasionally get it to lift back up, but it's basically on the floor 24/7.

    Seems like this is purely a hydraulic issue. My first thought was just to buy a new GM master cylinder and see what that gets me. Looks like Rockauto has a Delco for $105 shipped. My concern is that if I do this, is it probable that the slave is going to go also?

    If I end up needing to replace the slave, I've decided that I'll just do the clutch too - I don't know the history of what's in there, nor do I want to pull the trans twice. That's the next piece of advice I could use - what would you recommend? This will remain a mostly stock car. Not even sure if it'll see headers/cam - probably not.

    At first, I considered just getting the "good" stuff - was looking at the Tick/Monster Stage 1 package. Total would be about $975. Then I started second guessing the Tick adjustable. I don't know that I want the adjustable. Just seems like something else I could mess up and have to dink with. The only reason I would shy away from the LS7 is that it's self-adjusting, and people seem to allege that the self-adjusting clutches are the cause of the high RPM lockout.

    So, what would you all do? Should I start with just the MC and see where that gets me? I want to feel comfortable that the car is reliable. Is it probable that if the MC goes out, the slave is right behind it? Is it worth the piece of mind to just replace the whole system?

    What components would you recommend? Is the LS6 MC a decent unit?
    Last edited by Atrus; June 2nd, 2013, 01:15 PM.
    2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

  • #2
    OK, been reading and reading on this....

    My pedal is on the floor, and I can't get it back up now. When I did get pressure, the clutch felt normal - no excessive slipping/noise/anything. I just had a very low engagement point. Right now, the pedal is literally on the floor and I can't disengage the clutch at all. I haven't noticed anything dripping from the bellhousing, which I would think of I had a bad slave. Also, if it were a bad slave, I'd ASSume that the MC would "pop" back up and I'd end up just puking fluid out of the damaged slave when I depressed the pedal again. The reservoir doesn't seem to be low on fluid like I am losing it anywhere.I am thinking it's the MC - do you guys get the same feeling?

    That being said...if the consensus is it's the MC, do you all think the LS6 OE Master would do well enough for me ($105 shipped), or would it best best to go for the Tick unit now ($325)? If I need a new slave, I'd plan on running an LS6 or LS7 clutch. The car won't see track days - just me being an idiot on the street - and won't have any major power mods. If I can get by with just a MC and get comfortable that all is functioning well again, I'd be really happy. I'll look into a slave/clutch replacement next year like I had planned before this mess started.
    Last edited by Atrus; June 3rd, 2013, 09:34 AM.
    2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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    • #3
      I'd prob start by bleeding the system with new fluid and see if that helps. Have you inspected the master itself to check if it's seeping any fluid?
      Makin Torque.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Iroc'nthe87 View Post
        I'd prob start by bleeding the system with new fluid and see if that helps. Have you inspected the master itself to check if it's seeping any fluid?
        I have not yet - I'll have to get the car up in the air and take a look at the MC. I haven't seen anything hit the floor though.

        I can try to bleed the system. Two points on that though: 1) The pedal is stuck to the floor, so conventional bleeding won't work. I do have a powerbleeder though. 2) I bled the system 200 miles ago.
        2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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        • #5
          Have you tried to pull the pedal up by hand??
          Makin Torque.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Iroc'nthe87 View Post
            Have you tried to pull the pedal up by hand??
            Yup, I can manually pull it up and then it just flops back down to the floor. Makes me think the MC is stuck in the compressed position. Maybe something like a seal went, allowed fluid behind it, and now it can't return to the extended position? It just seems like it's bottomed out, but the clutch is absolutely engaged. It's not like it's stuck down and there's pressure behind it - I can't get the car into gear at all with the engine running. Engine/drivetrain are definitely locked together right now.
            2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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            • #7
              Replace everything. LS7 clutch and a replacement slave. That would be perfect for what your trying to do. You don't need a spec/monster stage anything and a tick master for a stock LS1 car you just drive around on the street for fun....


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              • #8
                I'd still bleed it and put new fluid in it. Also FWIW, I do believe I read that the replacement CMC AutoZone sells is the same unit GM uses (raybestos), and they're like $65 bucks.
                Makin Torque.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by c0ncEpT View Post
                  Replace everything. LS7 clutch and a replacement slave. That would be perfect for what your trying to do. You don't need a spec/monster stage anything and a tick master for a stock LS1 car you just drive around on the street for fun....
                  This.

                  Sent using Tapatalk 2 on Android.
                  1999 Camaro - 6 liters of fury.....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by c0ncEpT View Post
                    Replace everything. LS7 clutch and a replacement slave. That would be perfect for what your trying to do. You don't need a spec/monster stage anything and a tick master for a stock LS1 car you just drive around on the street for fun....
                    Originally posted by sman View Post
                    This.
                    Are you saying to use the LS7 with the LS6 MC, or would you go with the Tick MC? Also, any idea on if I need to get the LS7 balanced at all, or is it literally an "open the box, bolt it on" kind of thing?

                    Originally posted by Iroc'nthe87 View Post
                    I'd still bleed it and put new fluid in it. Also FWIW, I do believe I read that the replacement CMC AutoZone sells is the same unit GM uses (raybestos), and they're like $65 bucks.
                    That's good to know - I'll have to look into that. Any idea on the slave cylinders? Best to go with Delco, or is there a supplier-labelled equivalent?

                    EDIT: Looks like the Raybestos slave is also the same as the Delco. The Raybestos version of the MC doesn't come with the braided line. The Delco does.
                    Last edited by Atrus; June 3rd, 2013, 10:42 AM.
                    2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Atrus View Post

                      That's good to know - I'll have to look into that. Any idea on the slave cylinders? Best to go with Delco, or is there a supplier-labelled equivalent?

                      EDIT: Looks like the Raybestos slave is also the same as the Delco. The Raybestos version of the MC doesn't come with the braided line. The Delco does.
                      Many buy their slave cylinders from AZ or O'reilly's, but make sure the slave has the "AP" cast on it (as again those are the one's that GM uses/sells.) AP makes the slave and are just basically sold under GM,Duralast,etc as their own.

                      Also, I do not believe there is an "LS6" master, they should be car specific only.
                      Last edited by Iroc'nthe87; June 3rd, 2013, 02:45 PM.
                      Makin Torque.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iroc'nthe87 View Post
                        Many buy their slave cylinders from AZ or O'reilly's, but make sure the slave has the "AP" cast on it (as again those are the one's that GM uses/sells.) AP makes the slave and are just basically sold under GM,Duralast,etc as their own.

                        Also, I do not believe there is an "LS6" master, they should be car specific only.
                        Thanks for the info - I am still tempted to get the Delco off RockAuto as all info seems to indicate it has the braided line. I may pull the P/N and see what it does and doesn't come with. Looks like Autozone wants $157 for the line??

                        I follow you on the name - I am calling it the "LS6" as it's the improved design. My '00 got the older, crappier design from the factory. The '01 and '02 cars should have gotten an LS6 clutch and the improved hydraulics, which I am just calling "LS6".
                        2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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                        • #13
                          Unplug the clutch line and try to push the pedal..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1BADAIR View Post
                            Unplug the clutch line and try to push the pedal..
                            If the CMC is good, the pedal should be firm and not compress, right? I can get the car off the ground and try that later tonight or tomorrow night.

                            I just went out there - haven't touched the car in two days. Pedal was stuck to the floor. Lifted it and the spring brought it up to brake pedal level. First pump felt like normalish travel, although kinda soft/spongy. Started pumping, and with every pump it got lower until it eventually bottomed out on the floor. Took maybe 8-10 pumps to get it on the floor. After a min or two, it had about 1/4" of travel again. Push to floor and then all travel is gone again.

                            Looked for leaks at the CMC and the bellhousing and none on either.


                            So, let's say it is the CMC - is the mifbody recommendation to pick up a Delco/Raybestos/AP unit, or should I actually go for the Tick? Wasn't really following Concept's advice on the MC selection. I am fairly sold on the LS7 when the time comes - seems the folks with weird pedal engagement got that due to improper bleeding. I'll bench bleed and then powerbleed the thing to make sure it has no air in the system when I first use the CMC to cycle the clutch.
                            2000 SS Convertible #1414 - Light Pewter 6 Speed

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                            • #15
                              What I was basically saying is you don't need anything more than a stock replacement master and an LS7 clutch. Your going to gain absolutely nothing by going to an adjustable master on a car that makes 300hp and gets shifted at 6,000 RPM.


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